Discussion:
Three Decades Of Dental Neglect
(too old to reply)
Beaver Fever
2018-06-19 01:04:17 UTC
Permalink
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,

Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.

Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
Dover Beach
2018-07-04 21:34:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beaver Fever
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,
Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.
Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
Whereas I have taken great care of my teeth, been to the dentist every
six months for most of my life, and now I have to have a "full mouth
restoration" to the tune of $25,000 - $30,000.
--
Dover
Opus the Penguin
2018-07-05 02:50:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dover Beach
Post by Beaver Fever
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,
Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.
Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
Whereas I have taken great care of my teeth, been to the dentist every
six months for most of my life, and now I have to have a "full mouth
restoration" to the tune of $25,000 - $30,000.
Dang, that sounds awful.
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
John Mc.
2018-07-05 04:56:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dover Beach
Post by Beaver Fever
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,
Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.
Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
Whereas I have taken great care of my teeth, been to the dentist every
six months for most of my life, and now I have to have a "full mouth
restoration" to the tune of $25,000 - $30,000.
Allow me to suggest a second opinion. My oldest son added his wife to his
dental plan after their marriage. Saw our family dentist who’s plan of
treatment involved root canals, caps, crowns.... in short the whole
magilla. At a cost in the 5 figure range after his insurance. A coworker
suggested his dentist who’s plan of treatment had one crown and some
filling replacements. Way lower cost. And she’s satisfied with the results.


John Mc.
Snidely
2018-07-05 09:13:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Mc.
Post by Dover Beach
Post by Beaver Fever
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,
Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.
Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
Whereas I have taken great care of my teeth, been to the dentist every
six months for most of my life, and now I have to have a "full mouth
restoration" to the tune of $25,000 - $30,000.
Allow me to suggest a second opinion. My oldest son added his wife to his
dental plan after their marriage. Saw our family dentist who’s plan of
treatment involved root canals, caps, crowns.... in short the whole
magilla. At a cost in the 5 figure range after his insurance. A coworker
suggested his dentist who’s plan of treatment had one crown and some
filling replacements. Way lower cost. And she’s satisfied with the results.
Generally speaking, 1 filling replacement per tooth is what you can do/
The next replacement is a crown, and perhaps a root canal. For either
fillings or crowns, margins are important.

I'm guessing Dover doesn't have many implants.

/dps
--
Maybe C282Y is simply one of the hangers-on, a groupie following a
future guitar god of the human genome: an allele with undiscovered
virtuosity, currently soloing in obscurity in Mom's garage.
Bradley Wertheim, theAtlantic.com, Jan 10 2013
Greg Goss
2018-07-05 07:05:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dover Beach
Post by Beaver Fever
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,
Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.
Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
Whereas I have taken great care of my teeth, been to the dentist every
six months for most of my life, and now I have to have a "full mouth
restoration" to the tune of $25,000 - $30,000.
I visit the dentist regularly. I had a "rebuild" in the early
nineties from not owning a nightguard, for about $4500, of which $1900
was not covered by insurance. So I wear a nightguard.

I've lost one tooth that I wanted to keep after it was too far gone
for another crown. Three other root canals. Otherwise all real at
age 61 despite daily neglect.

I blame Toronto fluoride in the fifties and sixties.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Dover Beach
2018-07-05 12:10:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Dover Beach
Post by Beaver Fever
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,
Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.
Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
Whereas I have taken great care of my teeth, been to the dentist every
six months for most of my life, and now I have to have a "full mouth
restoration" to the tune of $25,000 - $30,000.
I visit the dentist regularly. I had a "rebuild" in the early
nineties from not owning a nightguard, for about $4500, of which $1900
was not covered by insurance. So I wear a nightguard.
I've lost one tooth that I wanted to keep after it was too far gone
for another crown. Three other root canals. Otherwise all real at
age 61 despite daily neglect.
I blame Toronto fluoride in the fifties and sixties.
I've worn a night guard since college. That's apparently the only reason
why I still have any teeth at all.

My regular dentist told me I needed a full rebuild last December. I
didn't want to believe it, so I went to the U. of Colorado Dental
School last month, and the professor confirmed it. She said, "Not only
do you not want a student doing this, you don't want a generalist
dentist doing this. Either go to your favorite prosthodontist, or you
can use our prosthodontics department here, where faculty and residents
will do the work." So I'm using the school, because it's marginally
cheaper. I HAVE dental insurance. They will pay a whopping $1,000
towards the total.

The much cheaper option is dentures, but they're really bad for you long
term and best avoided if possible. I really don't want dentures, so
multi-day rebuild it is. In exchange, the dental school gets the
equivalent of a fully-loaded Camry hybrid.
--
Dover
Bob
2018-07-05 22:15:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dover Beach
The much cheaper option is dentures, but they're really bad for you long
term
Why?
Dover Beach
2018-07-05 23:17:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dover Beach
The much cheaper option is dentures, but they're really bad for you
long term
Why?
One big thing is that your jawbone needs stress in order to retain bone
mass. The roots of the teeth (or the metal of the implants) causes the
necessary stress to maintain mass. Dentures don't provide such stress
and your jawbone eventually starts to disintegrate.
Bob
2018-07-06 16:32:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dover Beach
Post by Dover Beach
The much cheaper option is dentures, but they're really bad for you
long term
Why?
One big thing is that your jawbone needs stress in order to retain bone
mass. The roots of the teeth (or the metal of the implants) causes the
necessary stress to maintain mass. Dentures don't provide such stress
and your jawbone eventually starts to disintegrate.
You mean it needs static stress? Or intermittent while chewing? Like, is the presence of a mineral mass in the vicinity of the bone something that maintains it even in the absence of mechanical stress? Or is it only the xmitted pressure?
Boron Elgar
2018-07-06 18:28:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob
Post by Dover Beach
Post by Dover Beach
The much cheaper option is dentures, but they're really bad for you
long term
Why?
One big thing is that your jawbone needs stress in order to retain bone
mass. The roots of the teeth (or the metal of the implants) causes the
necessary stress to maintain mass. Dentures don't provide such stress
and your jawbone eventually starts to disintegrate.
You mean it needs static stress? Or intermittent while chewing? Like, is the presence of a mineral mass in the vicinity of the bone something that maintains it even in the absence of mechanical stress? Or is it only the xmitted pressure?
Come on, bob...it'd have taken you less time to google this than to
post what you did. Tsk.
Alfalfa Bill
2018-07-06 04:41:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dover Beach
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Dover Beach
Post by Beaver Fever
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,
Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.
Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
Whereas I have taken great care of my teeth, been to the dentist every
six months for most of my life, and now I have to have a "full mouth
restoration" to the tune of $25,000 - $30,000.
I visit the dentist regularly. I had a "rebuild" in the early
nineties from not owning a nightguard, for about $4500, of which $1900
was not covered by insurance. So I wear a nightguard.
I've lost one tooth that I wanted to keep after it was too far gone
for another crown. Three other root canals. Otherwise all real at
age 61 despite daily neglect.
I blame Toronto fluoride in the fifties and sixties.
I've worn a night guard since college. That's apparently the only reason
why I still have any teeth at all.
My regular dentist told me I needed a full rebuild last December. I
didn't want to believe it, so I went to the U. of Colorado Dental
School last month, and the professor confirmed it. She said, "Not only
do you not want a student doing this, you don't want a generalist
dentist doing this. Either go to your favorite prosthodontist, or you
can use our prosthodontics department here, where faculty and residents
will do the work." So I'm using the school, because it's marginally
cheaper. I HAVE dental insurance. They will pay a whopping $1,000
towards the total.
The much cheaper option is dentures, but they're really bad for you long
term and best avoided if possible. I really don't want dentures, so
multi-day rebuild it is. In exchange, the dental school gets the
equivalent of a fully-loaded Camry hybrid.
Perhaps your dentist charges even more per hour than your husband does.

How can you even build a dental bill that big?

Sorry for the bad news.
a***@yahoo.com
2018-07-05 12:21:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Dover Beach
Post by Beaver Fever
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,
Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.
Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
Whereas I have taken great care of my teeth, been to the dentist every
six months for most of my life, and now I have to have a "full mouth
restoration" to the tune of $25,000 - $30,000.
I visit the dentist regularly. I had a "rebuild" in the early
nineties from not owning a nightguard, for about $4500, of which $1900
was not covered by insurance. So I wear a nightguard.
I've lost one tooth that I wanted to keep after it was too far gone
for another crown. Three other root canals. Otherwise all real at
age 61 despite daily neglect.
I blame Toronto fluoride in the fifties and sixties.
My dentist says that I am a champion grinder, but he hasn't given me a trophy yet. Another dentist in the same office compared my teeth to that of a tax account around tax time. it's my crowning achievement.
Beaver Fever
2018-07-07 00:23:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dover Beach
Post by Beaver Fever
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,
Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.
Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
Whereas I have taken great care of my teeth, been to the dentist every
six months for most of my life, and now I have to have a "full mouth
restoration" to the tune of $25,000 - $30,000.
--
Dover
Oh no, I am so sorry to hear that. I know I really don't deserve my extraordinary good fortune.

The hygienist also mentioned a mouth guard because there is some wear but I am going to let that go. I catch myself clenching my teeth and jaw a lot as I am a total stress case.

You should post more even it's just good news. Now the group is a blur of names that all look the same posting total drivel. The internet was a lot better when some intelligence was required for participation.
Les Albert
2018-07-07 00:32:43 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 6 Jul 2018 17:23:59 -0700 (PDT), Beaver Fever
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by Dover Beach
Post by Beaver Fever
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,
Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.
Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
Whereas I have taken great care of my teeth, been to the dentist every
six months for most of my life, and now I have to have a "full mouth
restoration" to the tune of $25,000 - $30,000.
Oh no, I am so sorry to hear that. I know I really don't deserve my extraordinary good fortune.
The hygienist also mentioned a mouth guard because there is some wear but I am going to let that go. I catch myself clenching my teeth and jaw a lot as I am a total stress case.
You should post more even it's just good news. Now the group is a blur of names that all look the same posting total drivel. The internet was a lot better when some intelligence was required for participation.
You are right! Total drivel is never as good as pure drivel.
Snidely
2018-07-08 08:16:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Les Albert
On Fri, 6 Jul 2018 17:23:59 -0700 (PDT), Beaver Fever
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by Dover Beach
Post by Beaver Fever
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,
Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.
Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
Whereas I have taken great care of my teeth, been to the dentist every
six months for most of my life, and now I have to have a "full mouth
restoration" to the tune of $25,000 - $30,000.
Oh no, I am so sorry to hear that. I know I really don't deserve my
extraordinary good fortune. The hygienist also mentioned a mouth guard
because there is some wear but I am going to let that go. I catch myself
clenching my teeth and jaw a lot as I am a total stress case. You should
post more even it's just good news. Now the group is a blur of names that
all look the same posting total drivel. The internet was a lot better when
some intelligence was required for participation.
You are right! Total drivel is never as good as pure drivel.
Sorry, I'm not up to either level ... I can only manage adulterated
drivel.

/dps
--
Who, me? And what lacuna?
Kerr-Mudd,John
2018-07-08 09:12:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Snidely
Post by Les Albert
On Fri, 6 Jul 2018 17:23:59 -0700 (PDT), Beaver Fever
[]
Post by Snidely
Post by Les Albert
case. You should post more even it's just good news. Now the group
is a blur of names that all look the same posting total drivel. The
internet was a lot better when some intelligence was required for
participation.
You are right! Total drivel is never as good as pure drivel.
Sorry, I'm not up to either level ... I can only manage adulterated
drivel.
/dps
Drivel is as drivel does.

Could a Really Good Post still contain a homeopathic level of drivel?
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Lesmond
2018-07-08 03:56:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by Dover Beach
Post by Beaver Fever
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,
Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.
Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
Whereas I have taken great care of my teeth, been to the dentist every
six months for most of my life, and now I have to have a "full mouth
restoration" to the tune of $25,000 - $30,000.
--
Dover
Oh no, I am so sorry to hear that. I know I really don't deserve my extraordinary good fortune.
The hygienist also mentioned a mouth guard because there is some wear but I am going to let that go. I catch myself clenching my teeth and jaw a lot as I am a total stress case.
You should post more even it's just good news. Now the group is a blur of names that all look the same posting total drivel. The internet was a lot better when some intelligence was required for participation.
I can't remember those days.
--
Do not spray into eyes
I have sprayed you into my eyes
Questor
2018-07-10 18:37:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beaver Fever
You should post more even it's just good news. Now the group is a blur of names
that all look the same posting total drivel.
I breathlessly await your examples of scintillating, informative, and
entertaining posts that we will all attempt to emulate.
Post by Beaver Fever
The internet was a lot better when
some intelligence was required for participation.
It had a certain charm back when it was still called the Arpanet. However it's
hard to deny the attraction of its current offerings.
Beaver Fever
2018-07-17 00:20:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by Dover Beach
Post by Beaver Fever
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,
Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.
Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
Whereas I have taken great care of my teeth, been to the dentist every
six months for most of my life, and now I have to have a "full mouth
restoration" to the tune of $25,000 - $30,000.
--
Dover
Oh no, I am so sorry to hear that. I know I really don't deserve my extraordinary good fortune.
The hygienist also mentioned a mouth guard because there is some wear but I am going to let that go. I catch myself clenching my teeth and jaw a lot as I am a total stress case.
You should post more even it's just good news. Now the group is a blur of names that all look the same posting total drivel. The internet was a lot better when some intelligence was required for participation.
And BAM

just like that

not even done gloating yet when my circumstances of a few weeks ago reversed in the blink of an eye.
Lesmond
2018-07-17 12:49:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by Dover Beach
Post by Beaver Fever
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,
Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.
Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
Whereas I have taken great care of my teeth, been to the dentist every
six months for most of my life, and now I have to have a "full mouth
restoration" to the tune of $25,000 - $30,000.
--
Dover
Oh no, I am so sorry to hear that. I know I really don't deserve my extraordinary good fortune.
The hygienist also mentioned a mouth guard because there is some wear but I am going to let that go. I catch myself clenching my teeth and jaw a lot as I am a total stress case.
You should post more even it's just good news. Now the group is a blur of names that all look the same posting total drivel. The internet was a lot better when some intelligence was required for participation.
And BAM
just like that
not even done gloating yet when my circumstances of a few weeks ago reversed in the blink of an eye.
You broke all your teeth in a mosh pit?
--
Do not spray into eyes
I have sprayed you into my eyes
Beaver Fever
2018-07-17 16:17:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lesmond
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by Dover Beach
Post by Beaver Fever
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,
Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.
Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
Whereas I have taken great care of my teeth, been to the dentist every
six months for most of my life, and now I have to have a "full mouth
restoration" to the tune of $25,000 - $30,000.
--
Dover
Oh no, I am so sorry to hear that. I know I really don't deserve my extraordinary good fortune.
The hygienist also mentioned a mouth guard because there is some wear but I am going to let that go. I catch myself clenching my teeth and jaw a lot as I am a total stress case.
You should post more even it's just good news. Now the group is a blur of names that all look the same posting total drivel. The internet was a lot better when some intelligence was required for participation.
And BAM
just like that
not even done gloating yet when my circumstances of a few weeks ago reversed in the blink of an eye.
You broke all your teeth in a mosh pit?
--
Do not spray into eyes
I have sprayed you into my eyes
Nope, though that was always a concern.

Peridontal abcess. When they saw that it was like the ER gunshot victim scene in the chair.

We'll see what happens.

I am so glad I didn't let any feelings of guilt get in the way of earning enough of a living to deal with this.
a***@yahoo.com
2018-07-17 18:06:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beaver Fever
Peridontal abcess. When they saw that it was like the ER gunshot victim scene in the chair.
Painful and expensive! Been there. Don't have the Teeth shirt.
David Lesher
2018-08-06 14:40:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beaver Fever
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,
Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.
Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
A friend almost died from his bad teeth.

He had an echocardiogram and the tech was booking immediate
surgery as he came out of the procedure; he had an aortic
aneurysm and when (not if...) it burst, he was dead then and
there.

Then they looked in his mouth, saw the infected teeth, and put a
hold on the surgery team. He had to get all his teeth on top and
most on the bottom yanked, and wait a week for recovery before
they would touch him.

He survived somehow but....
--
A host is a host from coast to ***@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Snidely
2018-08-07 08:13:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Lesher
Post by Beaver Fever
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,
Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.
Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
A friend almost died from his bad teeth.
He had an echocardiogram and the tech was booking immediate
surgery as he came out of the procedure; he had an aortic
aneurysm and when (not if...) it burst, he was dead then and
there.
Then they looked in his mouth, saw the infected teeth, and put a
hold on the surgery team. He had to get all his teeth on top and
most on the bottom yanked, and wait a week for recovery before
they would touch him.
He survived somehow but....
There are cases of dying from bad death without aortic aneurysm. I
know of one locally, and have read of other cases in the newspaper:
basically, turns into a blood infection or sepsis.

/dps
--
Rule #0: Don't be on fire.
In case of fire, exit the building before tweeting about it.
(Sighting reported by Adam F)
Snidely
2018-08-07 08:15:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Lesher
Post by Beaver Fever
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,
Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.
Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
A friend almost died from his bad teeth.
He had an echocardiogram and the tech was booking immediate
surgery as he came out of the procedure; he had an aortic
aneurysm and when (not if...) it burst, he was dead then and
there.
Then they looked in his mouth, saw the infected teeth, and put a
hold on the surgery team. He had to get all his teeth on top and
most on the bottom yanked, and wait a week for recovery before
they would touch him.
He survived somehow but....
There are cases of dying from bad death without aortic aneurysm. I know of
one locally, and have read of other cases in the newspaper: basically, turns
into a blood infection or sepsis.
/dps
I prufred that, I sware!

"from bad teeth"

/dps
--
But happiness cannot be pursued; it must ensue. One must have a reason
to 'be happy.'"
Viktor Frankl
bill van
2018-08-08 00:44:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Snidely
Post by David Lesher
Post by Beaver Fever
And all I needed was a deep cleaning,
Yet another seemingly poor life choice suddenly vindicated.
Sometimes it's pretty awesome to be me.
A friend almost died from his bad teeth.
He had an echocardiogram and the tech was booking immediate
surgery as he came out of the procedure; he had an aortic
aneurysm and when (not if...) it burst, he was dead then and
there.
Then they looked in his mouth, saw the infected teeth, and put a
hold on the surgery team. He had to get all his teeth on top and
most on the bottom yanked, and wait a week for recovery before
they would touch him.
He survived somehow but....
There are cases of dying from bad death without aortic aneurysm. I
basically, turns into a blood infection or sepsis.
/dps
There is some early talk in Canada of incorporating dental care into
our Medicare system. No politicians anywhere near power are campaigning
for it yet, but the CBC, emboldened by a Liberal/liberal government in
Ottawa, has been running documentaries on the terrible health
implications of dental neglect. It was Liberal governments in the late
1950s and mid-'60s, pushed by the social democrats, that brought in
socialized medicine in the first place.

The big obstacle is that recent federal governments have been running
significant deficits, which gives the Conservative opposition a lot of
traction against socialized dental care. But if they can get back into
the black while Trudeau fils is PM, I think there's a chance.

bill
Howard
2018-08-08 13:41:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by bill van
There is some early talk in Canada of incorporating dental care into
our Medicare system. No politicians anywhere near power are
campaigning
for it yet, but the CBC, emboldened by a Liberal/liberal government in
Ottawa, has been running documentaries on the terrible health
implications of dental neglect. It was Liberal governments in the late
1950s and mid-'60s, pushed by the social democrats, that brought in
socialized medicine in the first place.
The big obstacle is that recent federal governments have been running
significant deficits, which gives the Conservative opposition a lot of
traction against socialized dental care. But if they can get back into
the black while Trudeau fils is PM, I think there's a chance.
Shows my ignorance that I thought it was already covered in Canada.

This is a clear cut case where the economics favors regular checkups and
cleanings. Governments would probably be better off paying parents $20
per appointment to take their kids in for checkups and full flouride
treatments, although of course it would take decades for the benefits to
be fully realized.
Beaver Fever
2018-08-08 15:27:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Howard
Post by bill van
There is some early talk in Canada of incorporating dental care into
our Medicare system. No politicians anywhere near power are
campaigning
for it yet, but the CBC, emboldened by a Liberal/liberal government in
Ottawa, has been running documentaries on the terrible health
implications of dental neglect. It was Liberal governments in the late
1950s and mid-'60s, pushed by the social democrats, that brought in
socialized medicine in the first place.
The big obstacle is that recent federal governments have been running
significant deficits, which gives the Conservative opposition a lot of
traction against socialized dental care. But if they can get back into
the black while Trudeau fils is PM, I think there's a chance.
Shows my ignorance that I thought it was already covered in Canada.
This is a clear cut case where the economics favors regular checkups and
cleanings. Governments would probably be better off paying parents $20
per appointment to take their kids in for checkups and full flouride
treatments, although of course it would take decades for the benefits to
be fully realized.
What's the problem with people just paying for their own stuff?
a***@yahoo.com
2018-08-08 17:15:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beaver Fever
What's the problem with people just paying for their own stuff?
Amputations cost an arm and a leg.
B***@BillTurlock.com
2018-08-08 22:26:43 UTC
Permalink
On Wednesday, August 8, 2018 at 11:27:20 AM UTC-4, Beaver Fever wrote:>>
Post by Beaver Fever
What's the problem with people just paying for their own stuff?
Amputations cost an arm and a leg.
A nominal egg.
bill van
2018-08-08 18:37:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by Howard
Post by bill van
There is some early talk in Canada of incorporating dental care into
our Medicare system. No politicians anywhere near power are
campaigning
for it yet, but the CBC, emboldened by a Liberal/liberal government in
Ottawa, has been running documentaries on the terrible health
implications of dental neglect. It was Liberal governments in the late
1950s and mid-'60s, pushed by the social democrats, that brought in
socialized medicine in the first place.
The big obstacle is that recent federal governments have been running
significant deficits, which gives the Conservative opposition a lot of
traction against socialized dental care. But if they can get back into
the black while Trudeau fils is PM, I think there's a chance.
Shows my ignorance that I thought it was already covered in Canada.
This is a clear cut case where the economics favors regular checkups and
cleanings. Governments would probably be better off paying parents $20
per appointment to take their kids in for checkups and full flouride
treatments, although of course it would take decades for the benefits to
be fully realized.
What's the problem with people just paying for their own stuff?
Dentistry is very expensive and people who don't have a lot of money or
dental insurance plans often go without. That leads to deteriorating
teeth and other health problems, which ultimately cost society much
more than simply providing free or low-cost dental care would.

bill
Beaver Fever
2018-08-08 23:10:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by bill van
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by Howard
Post by bill van
There is some early talk in Canada of incorporating dental care into
our Medicare system. No politicians anywhere near power are campaigning
for it yet, but the CBC, emboldened by a Liberal/liberal government in
Ottawa, has been running documentaries on the terrible health
implications of dental neglect. It was Liberal governments in the late
1950s and mid-'60s, pushed by the social democrats, that brought in
socialized medicine in the first place.
The big obstacle is that recent federal governments have been running
significant deficits, which gives the Conservative opposition a lot of
traction against socialized dental care. But if they can get back into
the black while Trudeau fils is PM, I think there's a chance.
Shows my ignorance that I thought it was already covered in Canada.
This is a clear cut case where the economics favors regular checkups and
cleanings. Governments would probably be better off paying parents $20
per appointment to take their kids in for checkups and full flouride
treatments, although of course it would take decades for the benefits to
be fully realized.
What's the problem with people just paying for their own stuff?
Dentistry is very expensive and people who don't have a lot of money or
dental insurance plans often go without. That leads to deteriorating
teeth and other health problems, which ultimately cost society much
more than simply providing free or low-cost dental care would.
bill
Which brings us to the next obvious item of concern to the downtrodden - when are we going to start talking about free housing?
bill van
2018-08-09 00:16:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by bill van
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by Howard
Post by bill van
There is some early talk in Canada of incorporating dental care into
our Medicare system. No politicians anywhere near power are campaigning
for it yet, but the CBC, emboldened by a Liberal/liberal government in
Ottawa, has been running documentaries on the terrible health
implications of dental neglect. It was Liberal governments in the late
1950s and mid-'60s, pushed by the social democrats, that brought in
socialized medicine in the first place.
The big obstacle is that recent federal governments have been running
significant deficits, which gives the Conservative opposition a lot of
traction against socialized dental care. But if they can get back into
the black while Trudeau fils is PM, I think there's a chance.
Shows my ignorance that I thought it was already covered in Canada.
This is a clear cut case where the economics favors regular checkups and
cleanings. Governments would probably be better off paying parents $20
per appointment to take their kids in for checkups and full flouride
treatments, although of course it would take decades for the benefits to
be fully realized.
What's the problem with people just paying for their own stuff?
Dentistry is very expensive and people who don't have a lot of money or
dental insurance plans often go without. That leads to deteriorating
teeth and other health problems, which ultimately cost society much
more than simply providing free or low-cost dental care would.
bill
Which brings us to the next obvious item of concern to the downtrodden
- when are we going to start talking about free housing?
I know you have neanderthal political leanings, and you have now
exceeded the amount of time I am willing to waste on you for this
month, and perhaps the next as well.

bill
Beaver Fever
2018-08-09 00:37:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by bill van
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by bill van
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by Howard
Post by bill van
There is some early talk in Canada of incorporating dental care into
our Medicare system. No politicians anywhere near power are campaigning
for it yet, but the CBC, emboldened by a Liberal/liberal government in
Ottawa, has been running documentaries on the terrible health
implications of dental neglect. It was Liberal governments in the late
1950s and mid-'60s, pushed by the social democrats, that brought in
socialized medicine in the first place.
The big obstacle is that recent federal governments have been running
significant deficits, which gives the Conservative opposition a lot of
traction against socialized dental care. But if they can get back into
the black while Trudeau fils is PM, I think there's a chance.
Shows my ignorance that I thought it was already covered in Canada.
This is a clear cut case where the economics favors regular checkups and
cleanings. Governments would probably be better off paying parents $20
per appointment to take their kids in for checkups and full flouride
treatments, although of course it would take decades for the benefits to
be fully realized.
What's the problem with people just paying for their own stuff?
Dentistry is very expensive and people who don't have a lot of money or
dental insurance plans often go without. That leads to deteriorating
teeth and other health problems, which ultimately cost society much
more than simply providing free or low-cost dental care would.
bill
Which brings us to the next obvious item of concern to the downtrodden
- when are we going to start talking about free housing?
I know you have neanderthal political leanings, and you have now
exceeded the amount of time I am willing to waste on you for this
month, and perhaps the next as well.
bill
I really have no idea what the political leanings of neanderthals were as the public record from that era is somewhat lacking but I consider myself somewhat left of center.

I would say anybody can answer but no one is really left here.

Then again I have no idea what the housing situation is like in Canada so you may not be qualified to answer.
Questor
2018-08-10 16:54:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by bill van
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by bill van
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by Howard
Post by bill van
There is some early talk in Canada of incorporating dental care into
our Medicare system. No politicians anywhere near power are campaigning
for it yet, but the CBC, emboldened by a Liberal/liberal government in
Ottawa, has been running documentaries on the terrible health
implications of dental neglect. It was Liberal governments in the late
1950s and mid-'60s, pushed by the social democrats, that brought in
socialized medicine in the first place.
The big obstacle is that recent federal governments have been running
significant deficits, which gives the Conservative opposition a lot of
traction against socialized dental care. But if they can get back into
the black while Trudeau fils is PM, I think there's a chance.
Shows my ignorance that I thought it was already covered in Canada.
This is a clear cut case where the economics favors regular checkups and
cleanings. Governments would probably be better off paying parents $20
per appointment to take their kids in for checkups and full flouride
treatments, although of course it would take decades for the benefits to
be fully realized.
What's the problem with people just paying for their own stuff?
Dentistry is very expensive and people who don't have a lot of money or
dental insurance plans often go without. That leads to deteriorating
teeth and other health problems, which ultimately cost society much
more than simply providing free or low-cost dental care would.
bill
Which brings us to the next obvious item of concern to the downtrodden
- when are we going to start talking about free housing?
I know you have neanderthal political leanings, and you have now
exceeded the amount of time I am willing to waste on you for this
month, and perhaps the next as well.
bill
I really have no idea what the political leanings of neanderthals were as the
public record from that era is somewhat lacking but I consider myself somewhat
left of center.
Based on your postings here, you are well right of center. Unless left and
right mean something different in your world. You also exhibit a strong "fuck
everybody else" attitude, which is decidedly *not* a liberal or progressive
trait.
Post by Beaver Fever
I would say anybody can answer but no one is really left here.
So, "what's the problem with people just paying for their own stuff?"

Nothing -- if they are paid equitably. But they are not.

The Federal minimum wage is $7.25. There is not a single county in the U.S.
where that is a living wage for even a single person, let alone someone
supporting a family. If the Federal minimum wage had kept pace with gains in
worker productivity over the last four or five decades, it would be about $19.33
an hour. And that would be the *minimum*. Most people would be paid more.

Quite literally, workers are making more money overall for the companies that
employ them, but only a very small portion of that gain, if any at all, is being
shared with them. The money has been given instead to stockholders and
top executives. Or in the case of leveraged buy-outs, private equity firms.
Businesses have been far less reluctant to raise prices for their goods and
services however, so most people's effective buying power has been further
reduced. And many companies, particularly in the retail and service sectors,
employ small armies of part-time workers specifically so they are not eligible
for benefits. This is not insignificant: Walmart is currently the largest
employer in twenty-two states.

It's called "income inequality." In the past three or four decades, the income
curve in the United States has been grotesquely skewed towards the very rich.
Post by Beaver Fever
Then again I have no idea what the housing situation is like in Canada so you may not be qualified to answer.
Beaver Fever
2018-08-10 17:08:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Questor
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by bill van
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by bill van
Post by Beaver Fever
Post by Howard
Post by bill van
There is some early talk in Canada of incorporating dental care into
our Medicare system. No politicians anywhere near power are campaigning
for it yet, but the CBC, emboldened by a Liberal/liberal government in
Ottawa, has been running documentaries on the terrible health
implications of dental neglect. It was Liberal governments in the late
1950s and mid-'60s, pushed by the social democrats, that brought in
socialized medicine in the first place.
The big obstacle is that recent federal governments have been running
significant deficits, which gives the Conservative opposition a lot of
traction against socialized dental care. But if they can get back into
the black while Trudeau fils is PM, I think there's a chance.
Shows my ignorance that I thought it was already covered in Canada.
This is a clear cut case where the economics favors regular checkups and
cleanings. Governments would probably be better off paying parents $20
per appointment to take their kids in for checkups and full flouride
treatments, although of course it would take decades for the benefits to
be fully realized.
What's the problem with people just paying for their own stuff?
Dentistry is very expensive and people who don't have a lot of money or
dental insurance plans often go without. That leads to deteriorating
teeth and other health problems, which ultimately cost society much
more than simply providing free or low-cost dental care would.
bill
Which brings us to the next obvious item of concern to the downtrodden
- when are we going to start talking about free housing?
I know you have neanderthal political leanings, and you have now
exceeded the amount of time I am willing to waste on you for this
month, and perhaps the next as well.
bill
I really have no idea what the political leanings of neanderthals were as the
public record from that era is somewhat lacking but I consider myself somewhat
left of center.
Based on your postings here, you are well right of center. Unless left and
right mean something different in your world. You also exhibit a strong "fuck
everybody else" attitude, which is decidedly *not* a liberal or progressive
trait.
Basic survival trait, also in response to the way I was treated most of my life. I care about people about as much as they care about me.

But definitely left of the center for sure, unless the young bolsheviks have pushed the center much farther left than we are used to.
Post by Questor
Post by Beaver Fever
I would say anybody can answer but no one is really left here.
So, "what's the problem with people just paying for their own stuff?"
Nothing -- if they are paid equitably. But they are not.
The Federal minimum wage is $7.25. There is not a single county in the U.S.
where that is a living wage for even a single person, let alone someone
supporting a family. If the Federal minimum wage had kept pace with gains in
worker productivity over the last four or five decades, it would be about $19.33
an hour. And that would be the *minimum*. Most people would be paid more.
I did okay on less than $10, it was only some of my addictions and compulsions that made that challenging. So I figured out how to make more money. Problem solved. Last year I made over ten times what I did in 2013. But I am still rocking the minimum wage lifestyle. I already had almost anything I ever wanted or needed.

Also it's gotta last me for the rest of my life. Because fuck work.
Post by Questor
Quite literally, workers are making more money overall for the companies that
employ them, but only a very small portion of that gain, if any at all, is being
shared with them. The money has been given instead to stockholders and
top executives. Or in the case of leveraged buy-outs, private equity firms.
Businesses have been far less reluctant to raise prices for their goods and
services however, so most people's effective buying power has been further
reduced. And many companies, particularly in the retail and service sectors,
employ small armies of part-time workers specifically so they are not eligible
for benefits. This is not insignificant: Walmart is currently the largest
employer in twenty-two states.
Fuck it, don't work at Walmart then.
Post by Questor
It's called "income inequality." In the past three or four decades, the income
curve in the United States has been grotesquely skewed towards the very rich.
Post by Beaver Fever
Then again I have no idea what the housing situation is like in Canada so you may not be qualified to answer.
N J Marsh
2018-08-08 21:14:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Howard
Post by bill van
There is some early talk in Canada of incorporating dental care into
our Medicare system. No politicians anywhere near power are
campaigning
for it yet, but the CBC, emboldened by a Liberal/liberal government in
Ottawa, has been running documentaries on the terrible health
implications of dental neglect. It was Liberal governments in the late
1950s and mid-'60s, pushed by the social democrats, that brought in
socialized medicine in the first place.
The big obstacle is that recent federal governments have been running
significant deficits, which gives the Conservative opposition a lot of
traction against socialized dental care. But if they can get back into
the black while Trudeau fils is PM, I think there's a chance.
Shows my ignorance that I thought it was already covered in Canada.
No, it’s a common feature of supplemental coverage, like drugs. (Though
drugs are now covered in my province if you’re under 25, and seniors have
been covered/heavily subsidized for ages.)

Dental care is covered in the UK, as are some other things that are not in
most Canadian provinces. (FYI, Canada doesn’t have a health care system,
the federal government mandates coverage and standards for basic health
care and the provinces must meet those minimum standards, most provinces
cover well more than the minimum.)

I had an acquaintance who was an English dentist, they’d be in their early
sixties now. They told me a couple of decades ago that their profession had
changed completely from the start of their career to the mid point, because
the preventive coverage had changed British dental health so dramatically.
Post by Howard
This is a clear cut case where the economics favors regular checkups and
cleanings. Governments would probably be better off paying parents $20
per appointment to take their kids in for checkups and full flouride
treatments, although of course it would take decades for the benefits to
be fully realized.
I think that preventative dental care for minors is doable here, and will
happen sooner rather than later. I’d like to see full preventative coverage
for under 25, with a basic checkup and cleaning available to to everyone
annually or every other year.
--
njm
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