Discussion:
More on Watergate
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Howard
2017-08-03 18:41:31 UTC
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I've started reading Watergate by Fred Emery to get a better handle on
the whole scandal. A few things that jump out at me...

I knew G. Gordon Liddy was nuts, but I hadn't realized how much. He was
a fan of Nazi Germany and seriously proposed kidnapping student leaders
and assasinating one journalist. He promoted schemes like dressing up
infiltrators as hippies and having them pee on George McGovern's carpet.
I knew the Watergate break in was sloppy, but I hadn't realized how
amateurish he and the rest of the minions were.

Their lousy spycraft was reflected in the rest of the Nixon
organization. After the burglary of Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist's
office and before the Watergate break in, J. Edgar Hoover died. Nixon
and his staff knew that Hoover had literally tons of file cabinets with
damaging intelligence on key Democrats, but instead of securing those
files for later review by a friendly Nixon appointee, they were
hoodwinked by Hoover loyalists who later destroyed the files to hide
evidence of FBI spying.

There was an odd casualness in the entire executive branch. John Dean
was hired as White House Counsel after practicing law for six months
based on a single recommendation and a half hour interview. During
election season as the Vietnam War still raged, critical negotiations
were going on with the Soviets and Chinese, and the election was
looming, people would go on vacation and be unreachable, Nixon would
linger in Florida with friends. Nixon's involvement in the coverup
seems almost inevitable given the way Nixon pushed so hard for dirty
tricks and cared so little about how they were carried out and whether
the perpetrators were any good at their jobs.

There's no question Nixon sunk to Trumpian levels of paranoia and
craziness, but the odd thing is how he could switch between weak and
dumb at one moment and well-reasoned in another.

It was disturbingly easy at first keeping things under wraps, as people
like FBI Director Patrick Gray helped the White House out. But the
looseness of the conspiracy and its size made it harder and harder to
contain. People started lawyering up and realizing that lying to
protect Nixon was putting themselves in real danger, and that's when
things really began to fall apart. Nixon simply couldn't argue any more
that people were safer sticking together than striking out on their own.
B***@BillTurlock.com
2017-08-03 19:14:29 UTC
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On Thu, 3 Aug 2017 18:41:31 +0000 (UTC), Howard
Post by Howard
I've started reading Watergate by Fred Emery to get a better handle on
the whole scandal. A few things that jump out at me..
.... snip Elegant Précis ....

TY!
Whiskers
2017-08-03 19:37:28 UTC
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Post by B***@BillTurlock.com
On Thu, 3 Aug 2017 18:41:31 +0000 (UTC), Howard
Post by Howard
I've started reading Watergate by Fred Emery to get a better handle on
the whole scandal. A few things that jump out at me..
.... snip Elegant Précis ....
TY!
Timely reminder that shenanigans aren't a new thing.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
bill van
2017-08-03 21:42:23 UTC
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Post by Whiskers
Post by B***@BillTurlock.com
On Thu, 3 Aug 2017 18:41:31 +0000 (UTC), Howard
Post by Howard
I've started reading Watergate by Fred Emery to get a better handle on
the whole scandal. A few things that jump out at me..
.... snip Elegant Précis ....
TY!
Timely reminder that shenanigans aren't a new thing.
We didn't hear about Nixon's shenanigans until the Washington Post and
a few others started pursuing Watergate, and even then it took a long
time for the rest of the media to join the hunt.

Trump had no such free ride. He was such a loose cannon during the
election campaign that major media, state attorneys-general, civil
libertarians and others were ready to watch him very closely and speak
up once he was in office.

At least that's how it looks from here.

What do you guys south of the line think? Can General Kelly save the
Trump administration by insisting everyone start acting as if they
were sane?
--
bill
Boron Elgar
2017-08-04 00:23:23 UTC
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Post by bill van
Post by Whiskers
Post by B***@BillTurlock.com
On Thu, 3 Aug 2017 18:41:31 +0000 (UTC), Howard
Post by Howard
I've started reading Watergate by Fred Emery to get a better handle on
the whole scandal. A few things that jump out at me..
.... snip Elegant Précis ....
TY!
Timely reminder that shenanigans aren't a new thing.
We didn't hear about Nixon's shenanigans until the Washington Post and
a few others started pursuing Watergate, and even then it took a long
time for the rest of the media to join the hunt.
Trump had no such free ride. He was such a loose cannon during the
election campaign that major media, state attorneys-general, civil
libertarians and others were ready to watch him very closely and speak
up once he was in office.
At least that's how it looks from here.
What do you guys south of the line think? Can General Kelly save the
Trump administration by insisting everyone start acting as if they
were sane?
No
Howard
2017-08-04 02:11:36 UTC
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Post by bill van
Post by Whiskers
Post by B***@BillTurlock.com
On Thu, 3 Aug 2017 18:41:31 +0000 (UTC), Howard
Post by Howard
I've started reading Watergate by Fred Emery to get a better
handle on the whole scandal. A few things that jump out at me..
.... snip Elegant Précis ....
TY!
Timely reminder that shenanigans aren't a new thing.
We didn't hear about Nixon's shenanigans until the Washington Post and
a few others started pursuing Watergate, and even then it took a long
time for the rest of the media to join the hunt.
The sense I get is that Nixon and company misjudged how far they needed
to go to buy the silence of the Watergate burglars. If they had gotten
the burglars a lot more money and faster promises of clemency, they
might have managed to keep a lid on things. But the White House
couldn't keep all of them in line and once one thread came loose, all of
the previous sloppiness was impossible to keep secret.
Post by bill van
Trump had no such free ride. He was such a loose cannon during the
election campaign that major media, state attorneys-general, civil
libertarians and others were ready to watch him very closely and speak
up once he was in office.
At least that's how it looks from here.
What do you guys south of the line think? Can General Kelly save the
Trump administration by insisting everyone start acting as if they
were sane?
No
What she said.

Trump is nuts, Mueller isn't going away, and there are now enough ex-
senior staffers running free that even if Kelly can keep current
staffers buttoned down (which I doubt), there are lots of opportunities
for former people to leak.

And given the leak of the transcripts of Trump's nutty phone calls to
the leaders of Mexico and Australia, and the leak about Trump writing
the misleading statement about Trump Jr.'s meeting, it appears Kelly is
struggling to keep leaks under control. People under him will find ways
to undermine him, and Trump will be Trump.
Peter Boulding
2017-08-07 20:26:20 UTC
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Post by bill van
What do you guys south of the line think? Can General Kelly save the
Trump administration by insisting everyone start acting as if they
were sane?
Here's Glenn Greenwald's take (probably writing from *well* South of the
line):

<https://theintercept.com/2017/08/05/whats-worse-trumps-campaign-agenda-or-empowering-generals-and-cia-operatives-to-subvert-it/>
--
Regards, Peter Boulding
***@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk (to e-mail, remove "UNSPAM")
Fractal Images and Music: http://www.pboulding.co.uk/
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=794240&content=music
Boron
2017-08-07 20:42:51 UTC
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On Mon, 07 Aug 2017 21:26:20 +0100, Peter Boulding
Post by Peter Boulding
Post by bill van
What do you guys south of the line think? Can General Kelly save the
Trump administration by insisting everyone start acting as if they
were sane?
Here's Glenn Greenwald's take (probably writing from *well* South of the
<https://theintercept.com/2017/08/05/whats-worse-trumps-campaign-agenda-or-empowering-generals-and-cia-operatives-to-subvert-it/>
I put Greenwald on a list somewhere between pond scum and skid marks.
bobg
2017-08-07 23:07:43 UTC
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Post by Boron
On Mon, 07 Aug 2017 21:26:20 +0100, Peter Boulding
Post by Peter Boulding
Post by bill van
What do you guys south of the line think? Can General Kelly save the
Trump administration by insisting everyone start acting as if they
were sane?
Here's Glenn Greenwald's take (probably writing from *well* South of the
<https://theintercept.com/2017/08/05/whats-worse-trumps-campaign-agenda-or-empowering-generals-and-cia-operatives-to-subvert-it/>
I put Greenwald on a list somewhere between pond scum and skid marks.
Let me guess: too shrill?
Boron Elgar
2017-08-08 00:11:57 UTC
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Post by bobg
Post by Boron
On Mon, 07 Aug 2017 21:26:20 +0100, Peter Boulding
Post by Peter Boulding
Post by bill van
What do you guys south of the line think? Can General Kelly save the
Trump administration by insisting everyone start acting as if they
were sane?
Here's Glenn Greenwald's take (probably writing from *well* South of the
<https://theintercept.com/2017/08/05/whats-worse-trumps-campaign-agenda-or-empowering-generals-and-cia-operatives-to-subvert-it/>
I put Greenwald on a list somewhere between pond scum and skid marks.
Let me guess: too shrill?
He doesn't smile enough.
bill van
2017-08-07 20:44:30 UTC
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Post by Peter Boulding
Post by bill van
What do you guys south of the line think? Can General Kelly save the
Trump administration by insisting everyone start acting as if they
were sane?
Here's Glenn Greenwald's take (probably writing from *well* South of the
<https://theintercept.com/2017/08/05/whats-worse-trumps-campaign-agenda-or-emp
owering-generals-and-cia-operatives-to-subvert-it/>
Interesting piece. Looks like a large case of
be-careful-what-you-wish-for.
--
bill
Snidely
2017-08-08 07:55:01 UTC
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On Monday, bill van pointed out that ...
Post by bill van
Post by Peter Boulding
Post by bill van
What do you guys south of the line think? Can General Kelly save the
Trump administration by insisting everyone start acting as if they
were sane?
Here's Glenn Greenwald's take (probably writing from *well* South of the
<https://theintercept.com/2017/08/05/whats-worse-trumps-campaign-agenda-or-emp
owering-generals-and-cia-operatives-to-subvert-it/>
Interesting piece. Looks like a large case of
be-careful-what-you-wish-for.
Lot's of "un-elected people setting policy", but that was the complaint
many people had about Bannon, too. I don't know which is worse. And I
suspect the divisions are more fine-grained than painted, with perhaps
Trad Mil vs CloakenDagger as one of the subplots.

/dps "well, hasn't always been?"
--
"This is all very fine, but let us not be carried away be excitement,
but ask calmly, how does this person feel about in in his cooler
moments next day, with six or seven thousand feet of snow and stuff on
top of him?"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain.
Snidely
2017-08-17 06:39:15 UTC
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Post by Snidely
On Monday, bill van pointed out that ...
Post by Peter Boulding
Post by bill van
What do you guys south of the line think? Can General Kelly save the
Trump administration by insisting everyone start acting as if they were
sane?
Here's Glenn Greenwald's take (probably writing from *well* South of the
<https://theintercept.com/2017/08/05/whats-worse-trumps-campaign-agenda-or-emp
owering-generals-and-cia-operatives-to-subvert-it/>
Interesting piece. Looks like a large case of be-careful-what-you-wish-for.
Lot's of "un-elected people setting policy", but that was the complaint many
people had about Bannon, too. I don't know which is worse. And I suspect
the divisions are more fine-grained than painted, with perhaps Trad Mil vs
CloakenDagger as one of the subplots.
/dps "well, hasn't always been?"
^ it
(one of the subplots)
--
Rule #0: Don't be on fire.
In case of fire, exit the building before tweeting about it.
(Sighting reported by Adam F)
B***@BillTurlock.com
2017-08-08 19:27:23 UTC
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On Mon, 07 Aug 2017 21:26:20 +0100, Peter Boulding
Post by Peter Boulding
Here's Glenn Greenwald's take (probably writing from *well* South of the
Dedicated head-in-the-sand'r that I am, I was heretofore ignorant
of GG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Greenwald

I think I like him!
Peter Boulding
2017-08-09 08:54:17 UTC
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Post by Boron
On Mon, 07 Aug 2017 21:26:20 +0100, Peter Boulding
Post by Peter Boulding
Here's Glenn Greenwald's take (probably writing from *well* South of the
Dedicated head-in-the-sand'r that I am, I was heretofore ignorant
of GG
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Greenwald
I think I like him!
(Boron sure doesn't.)


That Wikipedia article ain't bad, but it misses my prime reason for becoming
a regular reader of his back in his "Unclaimed Territory" days--namely his
frequent, often incisive, sometimes delectably contemptuous, and to my mind
usually well-deserved attacks on MSM (mainstream media) news and opinion
pieces and the sloppiness, dishonesty, and bias of their supposedly star
authors.
--
Regards, Peter Boulding
***@UNSPAMpboulding.co.uk (to e-mail, remove "UNSPAM")
Fractal Images and Music: http://www.pboulding.co.uk/
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=794240&content=music
Boron Elgar
2017-08-09 10:49:34 UTC
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On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 09:54:17 +0100, Peter Boulding
Post by Peter Boulding
Post by Boron
On Mon, 07 Aug 2017 21:26:20 +0100, Peter Boulding
Post by Peter Boulding
Here's Glenn Greenwald's take (probably writing from *well* South of the
Dedicated head-in-the-sand'r that I am, I was heretofore ignorant
of GG
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Greenwald
I think I like him!
(Boron sure doesn't.)
That doesn't even begin to touch on it.

I find him of no honorable journalistic bent, but a money-driven
coward of media who himself embraces and exemplifies the worst aspects
of the profession he rails against, and whose reputation he, along
with the sloppy, sensationalistic, source- harming writings of the
Intercept, do so much to harm.

He is the perfect journalist for the BernieBro, bullshit, alt-left
screed.
B***@BillTurlock.com
2017-08-09 18:52:26 UTC
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On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 06:49:34 -0400, Boron Elgar
Post by Boron Elgar
On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 09:54:17 +0100, Peter Boulding
Post by Peter Boulding
Post by Boron
On Mon, 07 Aug 2017 21:26:20 +0100, Peter Boulding
Post by Peter Boulding
Here's Glenn Greenwald's take (probably writing from *well* South of the
Dedicated head-in-the-sand'r that I am, I was heretofore ignorant
of GG
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Greenwald
I think I like him!
(Boron sure doesn't.)
That doesn't even begin to touch on it.
I find him of no honorable journalistic bent, but a money-driven
coward of media who himself embraces and exemplifies the worst aspects
of the profession he rails against, and whose reputation he, along
with the sloppy, sensationalistic, source- harming writings of the
Intercept, do so much to harm.
He is the perfect journalist for the BernieBro, bullshit, alt-left
screed.
Hmm... let me have another look at him, then
Boron
2017-08-09 19:27:20 UTC
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Post by B***@BillTurlock.com
On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 06:49:34 -0400, Boron Elgar
Post by Boron Elgar
On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 09:54:17 +0100, Peter Boulding
Post by Peter Boulding
Post by Boron
On Mon, 07 Aug 2017 21:26:20 +0100, Peter Boulding
Post by Peter Boulding
Here's Glenn Greenwald's take (probably writing from *well* South of the
Dedicated head-in-the-sand'r that I am, I was heretofore ignorant
of GG
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Greenwald
I think I like him!
(Boron sure doesn't.)
That doesn't even begin to touch on it.
I find him of no honorable journalistic bent, but a money-driven
coward of media who himself embraces and exemplifies the worst aspects
of the profession he rails against, and whose reputation he, along
with the sloppy, sensationalistic, source- harming writings of the
Intercept, do so much to harm.
He is the perfect journalist for the BernieBro, bullshit, alt-left
screed.
Hmm... let me have another look at him, then
I am a fan of Wonkette, that just so happens to have an article about
him a couple of days ago...

https://wonkette.com/621347/oh-go-fuck-yourself-glenn-greenwald
B***@BillTurlock.com
2017-08-10 02:41:33 UTC
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On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 15:27:20 -0400, Boron
Post by Boron
https://wonkette.com/621347/oh-go-fuck-yourself-glenn-greenwald
RoSRU
Boron Elgar
2017-08-10 11:03:13 UTC
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Post by B***@BillTurlock.com
On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 15:27:20 -0400, Boron
Post by Boron
https://wonkette.com/621347/oh-go-fuck-yourself-glenn-greenwald
RoSRU
I'd comment, but I have no idea what that acronym means.
Lesmond
2017-08-11 16:07:18 UTC
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Post by Boron Elgar
Post by B***@BillTurlock.com
On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 15:27:20 -0400, Boron
Post by Boron
https://wonkette.com/621347/oh-go-fuck-yourself-glenn-greenwald
RoSRU
I'd comment, but I have no idea what that acronym means.
Reynaldo of Sexy Rock University.
--
She may contain the urge to run away
But hold her down with soggy clothes and breeze blocks
Richard Hershberger
2017-08-10 13:27:10 UTC
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Post by Boron
Post by B***@BillTurlock.com
On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 06:49:34 -0400, Boron Elgar
Post by Boron Elgar
On Wed, 09 Aug 2017 09:54:17 +0100, Peter Boulding
Post by Peter Boulding
Post by Boron
On Mon, 07 Aug 2017 21:26:20 +0100, Peter Boulding
Post by Peter Boulding
Here's Glenn Greenwald's take (probably writing from *well* South of the
Dedicated head-in-the-sand'r that I am, I was heretofore ignorant
of GG
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Greenwald
I think I like him!
(Boron sure doesn't.)
That doesn't even begin to touch on it.
I find him of no honorable journalistic bent, but a money-driven
coward of media who himself embraces and exemplifies the worst aspects
of the profession he rails against, and whose reputation he, along
with the sloppy, sensationalistic, source- harming writings of the
Intercept, do so much to harm.
He is the perfect journalist for the BernieBro, bullshit, alt-left
screed.
Hmm... let me have another look at him, then
I am a fan of Wonkette, that just so happens to have an article about
him a couple of days ago...
https://wonkette.com/621347/oh-go-fuck-yourself-glenn-greenwald
I view Greenwald as the lefty version of the Breibart crowd. The difference is that Breibart is a force to be reckoned with on the right, while most on the left look at Greenwald and go "What the fucK?"

My brother years ago said of Greenwald that he would wake up one day a Fascist. Note that he is now de facto supporting Trumpism.

Richard R. Hershberger
Boron
2017-08-10 14:32:52 UTC
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On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 06:27:10 -0700 (PDT), Richard Hershberger
Post by Richard Hershberger
Post by Boron
I am a fan of Wonkette, that just so happens to have an article about
him a couple of days ago...
https://wonkette.com/621347/oh-go-fuck-yourself-glenn-greenwald
I view Greenwald as the lefty version of the Breibart crowd. The difference is that Breibart is a force to be reckoned with on the right, while most on the left look at Greenwald and go "What the fucK?"
My brother years ago said of Greenwald that he would wake up one day a Fascist. Note that he is now de facto supporting Trumpism.
Richard R. Hershberger
Agreed.

Supporting 45-ism and doing whatever he can to convince folks that
Russian interference/collusion is imaginary. Of course, Matt Taibbi
was blabbing that a lot, too.
Howard
2017-08-13 21:38:41 UTC
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Post by Boron
On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 06:27:10 -0700 (PDT), Richard Hershberger
Post by Richard Hershberger
Post by Boron
I am a fan of Wonkette, that just so happens to have an article
about him a couple of days ago...
https://wonkette.com/621347/oh-go-fuck-yourself-glenn-greenwald
I view Greenwald as the lefty version of the Breibart crowd. The
difference is that Breibart is a force to be reckoned with on the
right, while most on the left look at Greenwald and go "What the
fucK?"
My brother years ago said of Greenwald that he would wake up one day a
Fascist. Note that he is now de facto supporting Trumpism.
Agreed.
Supporting 45-ism and doing whatever he can to convince folks that
Russian interference/collusion is imaginary. Of course, Matt Taibbi
was blabbing that a lot, too.
I think the Breitbart analogy isn't apt here because I think Greenwald
isn't nearly that stupid. I think he's capable of some genuine
insights, some of the time.

I think a better comparison is Hitchens. Both are (were) so stubborn
that once committed to a line of argument, there's no turning back.
Compromise and shades of gray don't work for them.

Greenwald and Russia is like Hitchens and Iraq. Hitchens simply could
not admit to his dying day that it was possible to oppose Saddam Hussein
and oppose going to war against Iraq, and it led to the craziness of a
guy who rightfully tore apart Kissenger later embracing Cheney,
Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld. Greenwald is still unable to admit the
magnitude of Trump's danger or believe that someone can support the
intelligence community in some ways while deeply opposing them in
others.
Boron Elgar
2017-08-14 00:03:15 UTC
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On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 21:38:41 +0000 (UTC), Howard
Post by Howard
Post by Boron
On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 06:27:10 -0700 (PDT), Richard Hershberger
Post by Richard Hershberger
Post by Boron
I am a fan of Wonkette, that just so happens to have an article
about him a couple of days ago...
https://wonkette.com/621347/oh-go-fuck-yourself-glenn-greenwald
I view Greenwald as the lefty version of the Breibart crowd. The
difference is that Breibart is a force to be reckoned with on the
right, while most on the left look at Greenwald and go "What the
fucK?"
My brother years ago said of Greenwald that he would wake up one day a
Fascist. Note that he is now de facto supporting Trumpism.
Agreed.
Supporting 45-ism and doing whatever he can to convince folks that
Russian interference/collusion is imaginary. Of course, Matt Taibbi
was blabbing that a lot, too.
I think the Breitbart analogy isn't apt here because I think Greenwald
isn't nearly that stupid. I think he's capable of some genuine
insights, some of the time.
I think a better comparison is Hitchens. Both are (were) so stubborn
that once committed to a line of argument, there's no turning back.
Compromise and shades of gray don't work for them.
Greenwald and Russia is like Hitchens and Iraq. Hitchens simply could
not admit to his dying day that it was possible to oppose Saddam Hussein
and oppose going to war against Iraq, and it led to the craziness of a
guy who rightfully tore apart Kissenger later embracing Cheney,
Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld. Greenwald is still unable to admit the
magnitude of Trump's danger or believe that someone can support the
intelligence community in some ways while deeply opposing them in
others.
My deep distrust and dislike of Greenwald stems from his overarching
and extreme monetization of the Snowden info. I don' think he gave a
shit about the Snowden's act of contents of the info, but instead,
Greenwald used it to make himself in Assange, Jr, with almost as much
intellectual integrity and appeal, if you get my meaning.
B***@BillTurlock.com
2017-08-14 02:28:59 UTC
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On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 20:03:15 -0400, Boron Elgar
Post by Boron Elgar
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 21:38:41 +0000 (UTC), Howard
Post by Howard
Post by Boron
On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 06:27:10 -0700 (PDT), Richard Hershberger
Post by Richard Hershberger
Post by Boron
I am a fan of Wonkette, that just so happens to have an article
about him a couple of days ago...
https://wonkette.com/621347/oh-go-fuck-yourself-glenn-greenwald
I view Greenwald as the lefty version of the Breibart crowd. The
difference is that Breibart is a force to be reckoned with on the
right, while most on the left look at Greenwald and go "What the
fucK?"
My brother years ago said of Greenwald that he would wake up one day a
Fascist. Note that he is now de facto supporting Trumpism.
Agreed.
Supporting 45-ism and doing whatever he can to convince folks that
Russian interference/collusion is imaginary. Of course, Matt Taibbi
was blabbing that a lot, too.
I think the Breitbart analogy isn't apt here because I think Greenwald
isn't nearly that stupid. I think he's capable of some genuine
insights, some of the time.
I think a better comparison is Hitchens. Both are (were) so stubborn
that once committed to a line of argument, there's no turning back.
Compromise and shades of gray don't work for them.
Greenwald and Russia is like Hitchens and Iraq. Hitchens simply could
not admit to his dying day that it was possible to oppose Saddam Hussein
and oppose going to war against Iraq, and it led to the craziness of a
guy who rightfully tore apart Kissenger later embracing Cheney,
Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld. Greenwald is still unable to admit the
magnitude of Trump's danger or believe that someone can support the
intelligence community in some ways while deeply opposing them in
others.
My deep distrust and dislike of Greenwald stems from his overarching
and extreme monetization of the Snowden info. I don' think he gave a
shit about the Snowden's act of contents of the info, but instead,
Greenwald used it to make himself in Assange, Jr, with almost as much
intellectual integrity and appeal, if you get my meaning.
Thanks for the perspectives. As I've mentioned, I woudn't know
about these things, being a dedicated head-in-the-sand'r, without
the group, and to some extent, imgur.
Howard
2017-08-04 01:50:22 UTC
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Post by Whiskers
Post by B***@BillTurlock.com
On Thu, 3 Aug 2017 18:41:31 +0000 (UTC), Howard
Post by Howard
I've started reading Watergate by Fred Emery to get a better handle
on the whole scandal. A few things that jump out at me..
.... snip Elegant Précis ....
TY!
Timely reminder that shenanigans aren't a new thing.
Nixon might have gotten away with it all because the FBI and Justice
Department prosecutors initially were either complicit or very reluctant
to expand the case past the narrowest circumstances of the Watergate
break in.

I am reasonably hopeful that Mueller is being a lot more agressive. The
initial Watergate investigation was handled by fairly low level people,
while Mueller is hiring a lot of high level, very experienced
prosecutors and their areas of expertise suggest that Mueller is looking
into a lot of corners. It's reported today he's convened a grand jury
for the Russia case to go along with the one that already existed for
Michael Flynn. It's certainly possible nothing will come of either one,
but they may also be precursors to indictments.

On the other hand, once things started smelling fishy, the Democrat-
controlled Senate got serious about investigating. It's still
questionable whether the current Senate has much appetite for it.
Richard Hershberger
2017-08-10 13:19:53 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Howard
Post by Whiskers
Post by B***@BillTurlock.com
On Thu, 3 Aug 2017 18:41:31 +0000 (UTC), Howard
Post by Howard
I've started reading Watergate by Fred Emery to get a better handle
on the whole scandal. A few things that jump out at me..
.... snip Elegant Précis ....
TY!
Timely reminder that shenanigans aren't a new thing.
Nixon might have gotten away with it all
...if it weren't for those meddling kids!

because the FBI and Justice
Post by Howard
Department prosecutors initially were either complicit or very reluctant
to expand the case past the narrowest circumstances of the Watergate
break in.
I am reasonably hopeful that Mueller is being a lot more agressive. The
initial Watergate investigation was handled by fairly low level people,
while Mueller is hiring a lot of high level, very experienced
prosecutors and their areas of expertise suggest that Mueller is looking
into a lot of corners. It's reported today he's convened a grand jury
for the Russia case to go along with the one that already existed for
Michael Flynn. It's certainly possible nothing will come of either one,
but they may also be precursors to indictments.
On the other hand, once things started smelling fishy, the Democrat-
controlled Senate got serious about investigating. It's still
questionable whether the current Senate has much appetite for it.
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