Fuses in plugs

[John Hatpin]

[Inspired by a discussion with Greg Goss in another thread]

In the UK, our electric mains plugs are fused. You can get ratings of
3A, 5A and 13A, and possibly others as well if you look hard enough.
Remember, we're on ~250V here.

Greg calls this "bizarre", and he probably knows more than I do about
electricity. I think it's a very sensible system.

I'm ASSuming here that other countries have fuses fitted in the wall
sockets.

So, if I have, say a 3000W electric heater, I put a 13A fuse in its
plug. I have a a 40W table-lamp and in goes a 3A fuse. Each
appliance is fused according to its needs.

Then the central heating stops working, and it's cold, so I unplug the
lamp and plug in the heater. It's still correctly fused. What's the
problem with that?

There's obviously something I'm missing here, but I don't grok
electricity, so I don't know what it is.

[John Hatpin]

Maybe I should have left this in the original thread. I'm
transferring Greg's reply here.

The socket isn't fused. There is a fuse (or breaker) at the
distribution panel for the house, with a dozen or so outlets on each
breaker.

Do you have the "ring main" system - a cable going around the outlets?
Typically here, we have a fuse (or breaker) for: downstairs sockets,
downstairs ceiling lights, upstairs ditto and ditto, etc.

That makes sense - you might alternate the same socket for a
3000W electric fire and for a radio, so fusing the appliance rather
than the socket is a Good Idea. The main fuses available were, and
are, 3A, 5A and 13A.

The house wireing is always wired for 15A, or rarely for 20A. The
breaker prevents someone from hanging something on the end that's too
much for the house wiring. What else is the fuse for? If you plug
that 3000 W "electric fire" into wiring that's rated for half that,
how is a huge fuse in the heater going to save your house?

Bear in mind our 240-250V system, which affects the meaning of your
amperage value.

Well, the wire is rated at at least 15A (specific circuits such as
cookers excepted). 3000W/250V = 12A, so that's not a danger unless
you plug in a couple on the same ring, in which case the main fuse
will blow. I don't remember the ratings of the fuses in the main box,
but there are at least two types.

So, say your 3000W electric heater develops a fault and starts drawing
increasing amounts of juice as it fails. Soon it's drawing 3300W,
which is more than 13A, so the fuse in the plug blows. All the other
appliances on the same circuit keep working: the TV, the lights, your
mother-in-law's life support system, etc. All you see is that the
heater stops working.

So, you unplug it and check the fuse. Actually, unless you're a geeky
type like me that has to have a multimeter, you're more likely to try
putting in a new fuse to see if that works. Soon enough, you know
that the heater's packed in, there's the Simpsons on TV, you can see,
and your mother-in-law is still breathing.

Logical, no?

There is still a cultural impasse happening here.
The North American limit is somewhere not far above 1500 watts, so a
3000W heater would always blow a breaker.

Given the lower voltage (120V?), those figures work out about the same
in terms of the capacity of the wiring, that being determined by
amperage:

1500/120 = 12.5 <- 120V, 1500W
3000/250 = 12 <- 250V, 3000W

I'd guess that your wires and ours are pretty much the same gauge, and
both your and our maximum wattage is determined by 15A minus a decent
margin.

Disclaimer: John Hatpin doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about
when he gets onto electricity. He's probably wrong, but he's
interested to know exactly where he's making mistakes, and is playing
the Devil's Advocate to that end.

[Hactar]

Post by John Hatpin

The socket isn't fused. There is a fuse (or breaker) at the
distribution panel for the house, with a dozen or so outlets on each
breaker.

Older houses have fuses, newer ones have breakers. I've never seen a house
fuse (seen plenty in cars), although my grandmother's house had them before
the distribution box was replaced.

Post by John Hatpin
Do you have the "ring main" system - a cable going around the outlets?
Typically here, we have a fuse (or breaker) for: downstairs sockets,
downstairs ceiling lights, upstairs ditto and ditto, etc.

Yeah, one for each spatially-grouped set of *things*.

Post by John Hatpin

The house wireing is always wired for 15A, or rarely for 20A.

Larger appliances (stove/oven, AC, dryer, etc.) might be on 30A, 50A or
higher circuits, but in general, yeah. 20A has a funny outlet; I think
it's like this:

| |

o

with a - to the right of the upper right slot.

Post by John Hatpin
So, say your 3000W electric heater develops a fault and starts drawing
increasing amounts of juice as it fails. Soon it's drawing 3300W,
which is more than 13A, so the fuse in the plug blows. All the other
appliances on the same circuit keep working: the TV, the lights, your
mother-in-law's life support system, etc. All you see is that the
heater stops working.

Some semi-large appliances (such as my oxygen concentrator) have built-in
circuit breakers. In general, though, since that heater would draw so
much current (at 120V/15A the biggest heater you can get is 1800W... space
heaters are relatively anemic here) that you'd make sure only low-current
items were on a circuit with it, otherwise you'd be over 15A with it
operating normally.

[Greg Goss]

Post by Hactar

The socket isn't fused. There is a fuse (or breaker) at the
distribution panel for the house, with a dozen or so outlets on each
breaker.

Older houses have fuses, newer ones have breakers. I've never seen a house
fuse (seen plenty in cars), although my grandmother's house had them before
the distribution box was replaced.

My new condo (1977 construction) is fused. Last year's townhouse
(1972) had breakers. My parents replaced the fuse panel with breakers
sometime in the sixties. So the cutover period must have been fairly
slow.

[Rick B.]

Post by Greg Goss

Post by Hactar
Older houses have fuses, newer ones have breakers. I've never
seen a house fuse (seen plenty in cars), although my grandmother's
house had them before the distribution box was replaced.

My new condo (1977 construction) is fused. Last year's townhouse
(1972) had breakers. My parents replaced the fuse panel with
breakers sometime in the sixties. So the cutover period must have
been fairly slow.

The 1959 house I grew up in had breakers. I'm shocked (har!) that
anybody was still using fuse boxes in new construction in the '70s.

[Greg Goss]

Post by Rick B.

Post by Greg Goss
My new condo (1977 construction) is fused. Last year's townhouse
(1972) had breakers. My parents replaced the fuse panel with
breakers sometime in the sixties. So the cutover period must have
been fairly slow.

The 1959 house I grew up in had breakers. I'm shocked (har!) that
anybody was still using fuse boxes in new construction in the '70s.

So am I. This is a well-built place, with concrete flooring and
inter-unit walls, steel stairs and steel/plaster walls. The plumbing
is copper, (as, of course, is the wiring). To see fuses surprised me.

[Greg Goss]

Post by John Hatpin
Maybe I should have left this in the original thread. I'm
transferring Greg's reply here.

The socket isn't fused. There is a fuse (or breaker) at the
distribution panel for the house, with a dozen or so outlets on each
breaker.

Do you have the "ring main" system - a cable going around the outlets?
Typically here, we have a fuse (or breaker) for: downstairs sockets,
downstairs ceiling lights, upstairs ditto and ditto, etc.

No "rings". It's tree-shaped or a line. There is a central
distribution panel with fuses or breakers for wide areas of the house.
This sounds like what you describe. Each outlet has screws (or wire
grabber holes) for an input wire AND screws for a wire running to the
next outlet. I think you can also fan out several additional outlets
from that first one. But the line never loops back on itself.

There is never a breaker at the outlet, either inside it or in the
plug. Some expensive products like TVs, especially from the tube
electronics era, have a fuse in the product body, but never anything
at the plug or socket.

Sometimes the outlet is wired with a "ground fault interruptor", an
electronic circuit that compares the current out with the current
coming back to decide whether any current is missing (shorted to
ground). If so, it throws a breaker in the outlet. I don't know
whether the GFI also throws the breaker if there's too much current.
Like any other outlet, additional cheap outlets can be strung from the
one expensive GFI outlet - it will also protect the rest of the
outlets.

All outlets are rated to 15 amps (except for rare high-current
contexts) and the only smaller fuses you'll find are inside the body
of electronic items.

Post by John Hatpin
Well, the wire is rated at at least 15A (specific circuits such as
cookers excepted). 3000W/250V = 12A, so that's not a danger unless
you plug in a couple on the same ring, in which case the main fuse
will blow. I don't remember the ratings of the fuses in the main box,
but there are at least two types.

Our main fuses are 15 amps, but you often find people stealing a fuse
from the oven when something blows, so many are mis-fused with 20 amp
fuses. In the standard fusebox, all fuses are the same socket (same
as a standard light bulb) and the only difference is colour. A scheme
that used varying sized sockets for the various amp ratings came out
at about the same time as affordable breakers, but everyone went to
breakers, so I've only met the varying size fuse scheme once.

Post by John Hatpin
So, say your 3000W electric heater develops a fault and starts drawing
increasing amounts of juice as it fails. Soon it's drawing 3300W,
which is more than 13A, so the fuse in the plug blows. All the other
appliances on the same circuit keep working: the TV, the lights, your
mother-in-law's life support system, etc. All you see is that the
heater stops working.

Sorry about the Mother-in-law. Here, they go to the kitchen range,
and steal a 20 or 30 amp fuse and swap it quickly into the fuse box,
promising to fix it with the correct 15 amp fuse later. They never
do.

Post by John Hatpin
So, you unplug it and check the fuse. Actually, unless you're a geeky
type like me that has to have a multimeter, you're more likely to try
putting in a new fuse to see if that works. Soon enough, you know
that the heater's packed in, there's the Simpsons on TV, you can see,
and your mother-in-law is still breathing.
Logical, no?

There is still a cultural impasse happening here.

Everyone has stories about floundering around looking for a flashlight
to go down to the basement to flip a breaker or replace a fuse. We
accept that throwing a big chunk of the house into darkness when
something fails is "normal". It doesn't happen that often unless you
let your teen kid try to rewire radios or build "projects". My
parents had breakers and I knew which one would blow for each of many
outlets.

If I was being arrogant, I might think of the word "Lucas" from cars
and wonder if British electrical stuff was less reliable than ours,
but it's more likely just a cultural difference in whether dropping
half the house into darkness when the appl iance fails is acceptable.

Part of it is probably related to the fact that really high current
stuff is wired using a completely different plug to BOTH halves of the
wiring. Our home wiring scheme contains two opposite-phase circuits
referenced to one "common" wire. Standard outlets go to one side or
the other, mostly at random. Heavy duty outlets such as a water
heater, a range, a clothes dryer, or the pool heater go to both and
get 240 volts. With the really high-draw items removed from the
standard outlet, it may be easier to make them safe at our lower
voltage.

[the rest of your post is stripped as correct. Don't want to quote
anything that's right. Might just encourage rectitude.]

Post by John Hatpin
Disclaimer: John Hatpin doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about
when he gets onto electricity. He's probably wrong, but he's
interested to know exactly where he's making mistakes, and is playing
the Devil's Advocate to that end.

There. That's better. (grin)

[Nick Spalding]

Post by Greg Goss
If I was being arrogant, I might think of the word "Lucas" from cars
and wonder if British electrical stuff was less reliable than ours,
but it's more likely just a cultural difference in whether dropping
half the house into darkness when the appl iance fails is acceptable.

I wonder if Lucas has/had a special category of stuff they shipped to the USA.
I have owned five or six British built cars over the years and have never had
any sort of electrical fault in any of them.

[Les Albert]

Post by Nick Spalding

Post by Greg Goss
If I was being arrogant, I might think of the word "Lucas" from cars
and wonder if British electrical stuff was less reliable than ours,
but it's more likely just a cultural difference in whether dropping
half the house into darkness when the appl iance fails is acceptable.

I wonder if Lucas has/had a special category of stuff they shipped to the USA.
I have owned five or six British built cars over the years and have never had
any sort of electrical fault in any of them.

Years ago I heard someone in a U.S. automotive magazine refer to Lucas
as the Prince of Darkness.

Les

[John Hatpin]

Post by Nick Spalding

Post by Greg Goss
If I was being arrogant, I might think of the word "Lucas" from cars
and wonder if British electrical stuff was less reliable than ours,
but it's more likely just a cultural difference in whether dropping
half the house into darkness when the appl iance fails is acceptable.

I wonder if Lucas has/had a special category of stuff they shipped to the USA.
I have owned five or six British built cars over the years and have never had
any sort of electrical fault in any of them.

I was hoping someone else would jump in and explain this, but it's
been four days now and no reply, so I'll echo the bafflement.

Like Nick, I've had several cars with Lucas electrics here in the UK,
and never had any problem with their products beyond normal wear and
tear, etc. In fact, they had a reputation for reliability and
quality, which is at odds with their negative reputation in the USA.

There must be some difference.

[Greg M]

Post by John Hatpin

Post by Nick Spalding

Post by Greg Goss
If I was being arrogant, I might think of the word "Lucas" from cars
and wonder if British electrical stuff was less reliable than ours,
but it's more likely just a cultural difference in whether dropping
half the house into darkness when the appl iance fails is acceptable.

I wonder if Lucas has/had a special category of stuff they shipped to the USA.
I have owned five or six British built cars over the years and have never had
any sort of electrical fault in any of them.

I was hoping someone else would jump in and explain this, but it's
been four days now and no reply, so I'll echo the bafflement.
Like Nick, I've had several cars with Lucas electrics here in the UK,
and never had any problem with their products beyond normal wear and
tear, etc. In fact, they had a reputation for reliability and
quality, which is at odds with their negative reputation in the USA.
There must be some difference.

I first heard that Lucas Refrigeration was the reason youse folks like warm
beer. <g>

Actually GM and Ford could probably take the crappy auto electrics title.

GM once put a great deal of aluminum wiring in cars. Really a major leaque
step of stupidity. In the rust belt, where I live (Lower Great Lakes area)
any sort of nick in a wire resulted, when a little road salt was added, in
powered wiring. Usually (affecting) lighting but also electric fuel pumps
and anything not in the cabin proper.

Ford has been known to put diodes Inline, hidden in the harness. I almost
completely disassembled the dashboard of truck, days of troubleshooting,
before I found/ realized a little bump in a wire was a frickin' diode. I
had removed it thinking it was a defective chunk of wire. Which caused
other anomalies.

Ford was also good for smashing several wires together as a "joint". "Nah,
we don't need no stinking solder".

[Tim]

Post by John Hatpin
[Inspired by a discussion with Greg Goss in another thread]
In the UK, our electric mains plugs are fused. You can get ratings of
3A, 5A and 13A, and possibly others as well if you look hard enough.
Remember, we're on ~250V here.
Greg calls this "bizarre", and he probably knows more than I do about
electricity. I think it's a very sensible system.
I'm ASSuming here that other countries have fuses fitted in the wall
sockets.
So, if I have, say a 3000W electric heater, I put a 13A fuse in its
plug. I have a a 40W table-lamp and in goes a 3A fuse. Each
appliance is fused according to its needs.
Then the central heating stops working, and it's cold, so I unplug the
lamp and plug in the heater. It's still correctly fused. What's the
problem with that?
There's obviously something I'm missing here, but I don't grok
electricity, so I don't know what it is.

In Australia it's a different system. There are no fuses in plugs or in
the wall sockets. There is a main supply fuse where the power (240V) is
connected to the house. From there it runs to a distribution board where
there are number circuit breakers that supply wall outlets, lighting and
any other items like electric ovens or hot water heaters. For wall
outlets there would probably be a minimum of 4 circuit breakers of
either 16A or 20A. This will depend on the number of outlets in the
house... I'm pretty sure there is a limit of 4 double outlets per
breaker. The wiring from the circuit breaker to the outlets is either a
single run with the outlets tapped off it or a tree type of layout...
whatever is easiest for the layout of the sockets. There will be a
number of separate runs for lighting that generally have 8 to 10 amp
breakers. Separate breakers and wiring for ovens,
heating/air-conditioning or hot water. The hot water (if fitted... many
homes use gas for that) would almost always have a separate meter and a
timer so that it heats overnight at a lower tariff. The distribution
board will have residual current breakers (usually less than the number
of over current breakers) for everything except a single socket in the
kitchen for the refrigerator.

[Hactar]

Post by Tim
In Australia it's a different system.

[description of Australian electrics]

Sounds like the US system.

Post by Tim
heating/air-conditioning or hot water. The hot water (if fitted... many
homes use gas for that) would almost always have a separate meter and a
timer so that it heats overnight at a lower tariff.

It's the same rate around the clock here.

[Jim Shaffer, Jr.]

Post by Tim
The distribution
board will have residual current breakers (usually less than the number
of over current breakers) for everything except a single socket in the
kitchen for the refrigerator.

What's a residual current breaker?

[Hactar]

Post by Jim Shaffer, Jr.

Post by Tim
The distribution
board will have residual current breakers (usually less than the number
of over current breakers) for everything except a single socket in the
kitchen for the refrigerator.

What's a residual current breaker?

GFI?

[Jim Shaffer, Jr.]

Post by Jim Shaffer, Jr.

Post by Tim
The distribution
board will have residual current breakers (usually less than the number
of over current breakers) for everything except a single socket in the
kitchen for the refrigerator.

What's a residual current breaker?

GFI?

I thought of that, but I'm not sure why you wouldn't want one on the line to
your refrigerator.

[Jordan Abel]

Post by Jim Shaffer, Jr.
I thought of that, but I'm not sure why you wouldn't want one on the line to
your refrigerator.

Possibly current leaking to ground is considered less of an evil than
having a refrigerator full of spoiled food.

[Jeff Wisnia]

Post by Jordan Abel

Post by Jim Shaffer, Jr.
I thought of that, but I'm not sure why you wouldn't want one on the line to
your refrigerator.

Possibly current leaking to ground is considered less of an evil than
having a refrigerator full of spoiled food.

Particularly so since I'd expect that the refrigerator uses a grounded
plug, so the possibility of a human becoming a "leak" to ground is minimal.

Jeff

[dan]

What's that Lassie? You say that Jeff Wisnia fell down the old
alt.fan.cecil-adams mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue by

Post by Jeff Wisnia

Post by Jordan Abel

Post by Jim Shaffer, Jr.
I thought of that, but I'm not sure why you wouldn't want one on the line to
your refrigerator.

Possibly current leaking to ground is considered less of an evil than
having a refrigerator full of spoiled food.

Particularly so since I'd expect that the refrigerator uses a grounded
plug, so the possibility of a human becoming a "leak" to ground is minimal.
Jeff

In addition, you are not likely to drop the 'fridge into the sink and
get yourself killed.

Often the fridge plug has it's own circuit, so that when the coffee
maker is dropped into the sink and trips the breaker, your food won't
spoil.

Dan

[Hactar]

Post by Jim Shaffer, Jr.

Post by Jim Shaffer, Jr.

Post by Tim
The distribution
board will have residual current breakers (usually less than the number
of over current breakers) for everything except a single socket in the
kitchen for the refrigerator.

What's a residual current breaker?

GFI?

I thought of that, but I'm not sure why you wouldn't want one on the line to
your refrigerator.

WAG: Fridge draws too much current for the GFI to handle?

[r***@westnet.poe.com]

Post by Hactar

Post by Jim Shaffer, Jr.

Post by Jim Shaffer, Jr.

Post by Tim
The distribution
board will have residual current breakers (usually less than the number
of over current breakers) for everything except a single socket in the
kitchen for the refrigerator.

What's a residual current breaker?

GFI?

I thought of that, but I'm not sure why you wouldn't want one on the line to
your refrigerator.

WAG: Fridge draws too much current for the GFI to handle?

Nah, there are whole house GFCI's for those who want them.

However, according to
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Residual%20current%20breaker

"The term ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI) is used in the United
Sates.

The terms earth leakage circuit breaker (ELCB) is also used, though
strictly speaking this refers to a different type of device. "




John

[Mary Shafer]

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:55:52 -0400, "Jim Shaffer, Jr."

Post by Jim Shaffer, Jr.

Post by Jim Shaffer, Jr.

Post by Tim
The distribution
board will have residual current breakers (usually less than the number
of over current breakers) for everything except a single socket in the
kitchen for the refrigerator.

What's a residual current breaker?

GFI?

I thought of that, but I'm not sure why you wouldn't want one on the line to
your refrigerator.

Because you don't want everything in the fridge spoiling after the GFI
malfunctions.

Mary

[Chip C]

Post by Jim Shaffer, Jr.

Post by Tim
The distribution
board will have residual current breakers (usually less than the number
of over current breakers) for everything except a single socket in the
kitchen for the refrigerator.

What's a residual current breaker?

What we call in North America a "ground fault circuit interruptor".
Here they are required only for outlets in wet areas, specifically
including outdoors, basements and near sinks; specifically *excluded*
are "dedicated outlets for major appliances", including freezers,
fridges and even sump pumps.

The costs of nuisance trips causing food spoilage and floods is
weighed against the risk of shock.

And in most cases, GFCIs are implemented at the outlet, not the panel,
for reasons of cost and convenience.

This gets a lot of discussion in alt.home.repair.

Chip C

[John Hatpin]

Post by Tim

Post by John Hatpin
[Inspired by a discussion with Greg Goss in another thread]
In the UK, our electric mains plugs are fused. You can get ratings of
3A, 5A and 13A, and possibly others as well if you look hard enough.
Remember, we're on ~250V here.
Greg calls this "bizarre", and he probably knows more than I do about
electricity. I think it's a very sensible system.
I'm ASSuming here that other countries have fuses fitted in the wall
sockets.
So, if I have, say a 3000W electric heater, I put a 13A fuse in its
plug. I have a a 40W table-lamp and in goes a 3A fuse. Each
appliance is fused according to its needs.
Then the central heating stops working, and it's cold, so I unplug the
lamp and plug in the heater. It's still correctly fused. What's the
problem with that?
There's obviously something I'm missing here, but I don't grok
electricity, so I don't know what it is.

In Australia it's a different system. There are no fuses in plugs or in
the wall sockets. There is a main supply fuse where the power (240V) is
connected to the house. From there it runs to a distribution board where
there are number circuit breakers that supply wall outlets, lighting and
any other items like electric ovens or hot water heaters. For wall
outlets there would probably be a minimum of 4 circuit breakers of
either 16A or 20A. This will depend on the number of outlets in the
house... I'm pretty sure there is a limit of 4 double outlets per
breaker. The wiring from the circuit breaker to the outlets is either a
single run with the outlets tapped off it or a tree type of layout...
whatever is easiest for the layout of the sockets. There will be a
number of separate runs for lighting that generally have 8 to 10 amp
breakers. Separate breakers and wiring for ovens,
heating/air-conditioning or hot water. The hot water (if fitted... many
homes use gas for that) would almost always have a separate meter and a
timer so that it heats overnight at a lower tariff. The distribution
board will have residual current breakers (usually less than the number
of over current breakers) for everything except a single socket in the
kitchen for the refrigerator.

It's funny, the UK verges on the paranoid with rules and regulations
for mains electricity (hence fuses in plugs), yet - at a guess - most
homes here don't have modern circuit breakers, and rely on small bits
of wire to protect the residents.

I'd put in a RCCB fusebox in a heartbeat if we could afford it, but
last time I checked, they're pretty expensive items. The only RCCB we
have is one of those devices you plug into, then plug the device into
a wall socket.

[Chip C]

Post by John Hatpin
[Inspired by a discussion with Greg Goss in another thread]
In the UK, our electric mains plugs are fused. You can get ratings of
3A, 5A and 13A, and possibly others as well if you look hard enough.
Remember, we're on ~250V here.
Greg calls this "bizarre", and he probably knows more than I do about
electricity. I think it's a very sensible system.
I'm ASSuming here that other countries have fuses fitted in the wall
sockets.
So, if I have, say a 3000W electric heater, I put a 13A fuse in its
plug. I have a a 40W table-lamp and in goes a 3A fuse. Each
appliance is fused according to its needs.
Then the central heating stops working, and it's cold, so I unplug the
lamp and plug in the heater. It's still correctly fused. What's the
problem with that?
There's obviously something I'm missing here, but I don't grok
electricity, so I don't know what it is.

Your ASS-umption is not correct. Fused plugs are unique to places
which do their electrics UK-style. It's a clever idea, as it protects
the appliance and, especially, the appliance cord from faults which
would cause it to overheat.

In North America, the only circuit interruption is at the main panel,
typically 15A or 20A, which is sufficient to protect the house wiring
but *not* the appliance or cord. If you manage to wedge a 1300-Watt
bulb into your lava lamp, the cord or internal wiring will overheat,
possibly dangerously. In the UK (I ASSume) the plug would be fitted
with a fuse appropriate to the lamp's intended 40W bulb. Very sensible
it is; but bizarre as well to the North American eye.

Of course, in either case, the panel breakers or fuses protect against
dead shorts or draws of over 15/20 A. At 120V, that means no 3 kW tea
kettles for us :(

There *are* fuses in some things that contain transformers, such as
some halogen lighting fixtures and computer power supplies. In cheap
power bricks, I believe there are non-replaceable fusible links. Oh,
and electric ranges (er, "cookers") have an array of mostly 15A fuses
internally, protecting the internal wiring to each element.

Chip C
Toronto

[Robert Goodman]

Heh. In rec.pyrotechnics, that'd have an entirely different meaning.