Discussion:
beer question
(too old to reply)
Jake Blues
2007-01-29 23:25:25 UTC
Permalink
I'm about to crack open a forty-ouncer of Colt .45 (yeah that's right, the
truly topknotch stuff), and I remembered a friend telling me that almost all
beer is delivered warm to the stores, quickstops, etc. He said there's no
reason for them to spend the money keeping it cold throughout the whole
journey from the breweries, that it's only when it's about to be sold that
they coll it down. Is hat true?
John Hatpin
2007-01-29 23:49:38 UTC
Permalink
Jake Blues wrote:
[crosspost deleted]
Post by Jake Blues
I'm about to crack open a forty-ouncer of Colt .45 (yeah that's right, the
truly topknotch stuff), and I remembered a friend telling me that almost all
beer is delivered warm to the stores, quickstops, etc. He said there's no
reason for them to spend the money keeping it cold throughout the whole
journey from the breweries, that it's only when it's about to be sold that
they coll it down. Is hat true?
Can't speak for the USA (although I'll bet it's the same), but it's
certainly true here. The beer I get (Belgian Stella Artois in 500ml),
like many other beers, arrives at the shop in cases of 24. The cases
are opened, and the cans or bottles are put into fridges.

There's no point in any refrigeration in transit, or even in storage
at the breweries or depots. Being at ambient temperature doesn't harm
the beer at all - if you want to sell your beer chilled, you chill it
at the outlet.

Your friend was right.
--
John Hatpin
notbob
2007-01-29 23:52:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jake Blues
they coll it down. Is hat true?
Yes. Even the best beers are stored at room temps. One exception was
(is?) original Coors. The original Coors was not pasturized so the
company kept it under refrigeration from canning to delivery. Even
their trucks were refrigerated. Now, what the retailer did after
delivery is another thing. I've seen many supermarkets stockpile
large displays just before a major summer holiday or the superbowl and
let the beer sit at rooms temps. I do not know if Coors still
refrigerates their beer or not.

As for your Colt 45, yes, it is left at room temps till ready for
sale. After beer is bottled/canned, the enemy is not heat, but light.
Sunlight and UV light from fluorescent bulbs can "skunk" beer. Google
for "light struck" beer for more info.

nb
Bill Bonde
2007-01-30 00:56:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by notbob
Post by Jake Blues
they coll it down. Is hat true?
Yes. Even the best beers are stored at room temps. One exception was
(is?) original Coors. The original Coors was not pasturized so the
company kept it under refrigeration from canning to delivery. Even
their trucks were refrigerated. Now, what the retailer did after
delivery is another thing. I've seen many supermarkets stockpile
large displays just before a major summer holiday or the superbowl and
let the beer sit at rooms temps. I do not know if Coors still
refrigerates their beer or not.
As for your Colt 45, yes, it is left at room temps till ready for
sale. After beer is bottled/canned, the enemy is not heat, but light.
Sunlight and UV light from fluorescent bulbs can "skunk" beer. Google
for "light struck" beer for more info.
Corona.
--
"The ultimate test is always your own serenity." Robert M Pirsig, "Zen
and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
Mr C
2007-01-30 04:45:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Bonde
Post by notbob
Post by Jake Blues
they coll it down. Is hat true?
Yes. Even the best beers are stored at room temps. One exception was
(is?) original Coors. The original Coors was not pasturized so the
company kept it under refrigeration from canning to delivery. Even
their trucks were refrigerated.
In fact, 400 cases of Coors is the contraband in question in Smokey
and the Bandit.
Post by Bill Bonde
Post by notbob
Now, what the retailer did after
delivery is another thing. I've seen many supermarkets stockpile
large displays just before a major summer holiday or the superbowl and
let the beer sit at rooms temps. I do not know if Coors still
refrigerates their beer or not.
Well, perhaps the cans are different, for I often seen aisle displays.
Post by Bill Bonde
Post by notbob
As for your Colt 45, yes, it is left at room temps till ready for
sale. After beer is bottled/canned, the enemy is not heat, but light.
Sunlight and UV light from fluorescent bulbs can "skunk" beer. Google
for "light struck" beer for more info.
Corona.
Miller High Life also, in the clear bottles.


Mr C
Bill Bonde
2007-01-30 05:22:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr C
Post by Bill Bonde
Post by notbob
Post by Jake Blues
they coll it down. Is hat true?
Yes. Even the best beers are stored at room temps. One exception was
(is?) original Coors. The original Coors was not pasturized so the
company kept it under refrigeration from canning to delivery. Even
their trucks were refrigerated.
In fact, 400 cases of Coors is the contraband in question in Smokey
and the Bandit.
Is that enough to get, what, three rednecks a bit tipsy?: "Yea, but you
should see us do a number on the Great Chicgo Fire!"
Post by Mr C
Post by Bill Bonde
Post by notbob
As for your Colt 45, yes, it is left at room temps till ready for
sale. After beer is bottled/canned, the enemy is not heat, but light.
Sunlight and UV light from fluorescent bulbs can "skunk" beer. Google
for "light struck" beer for more info.
Corona.
Miller High Life also, in the clear bottles.
Perhaps if you are high, you don't notice.
--
"The ultimate test is always your own serenity." Robert M Pirsig, "Zen
and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
Pierre Jelenc
2007-01-30 17:06:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr C
Miller High Life also, in the clear bottles.
Miller uses hydrogenated hop extract, which is impervious to skunking.
It's also nasty.

Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc | New on Home Office Records: Ethan Lipton
| www.homeofficerecords.com www.ethanlipton.com
The Gigometer | Pepper Of The Earth: the HO blog
www.gigometer.com | www.homeofficerecords.com/blog
Rick B.
2007-01-30 17:14:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pierre Jelenc
Miller uses hydrogenated hop extract,
Trans hops?
Pierre Jelenc
2007-01-31 17:30:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick B.
Post by Pierre Jelenc
Miller uses hydrogenated hop extract,
Trans hops?
Well, no. A ketone is reduced to alcohol with borohydride, there's no C=C
double bond involved.

Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc | New on Home Office Records: Ethan Lipton
| www.homeofficerecords.com www.ethanlipton.com
The Gigometer | Pepper Of The Earth: the HO blog
www.gigometer.com | www.homeofficerecords.com/blog
Blinky the Shark
2007-01-30 17:46:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pierre Jelenc
Post by Mr C
Miller High Life also, in the clear bottles.
Miller uses hydrogenated hop extract, which is impervious to skunking.
It's also nasty.
There was a discussion in rec.food.cooking recently about soy sauce. I
never noticed, before reading that, that there is "real" and "fake" (to
use the terms of that discussion) soy sauce, the former being fermented
and the latter using hydrogenated soy or other vegetable matter and not
being fermented (at least not for months, like the "real" is supposed to
be).
--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
Opus the Penguin
2007-01-30 22:54:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pierre Jelenc
Post by Mr C
Miller High Life also, in the clear bottles.
Miller uses hydrogenated hop extract, which is impervious to
skunking. It's also nasty.
Do they use it in Miller Genuine Draft? I get along fine with MGD.
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
Pierre Jelenc
2007-01-31 17:27:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Opus the Penguin
Post by Pierre Jelenc
Post by Mr C
Miller High Life also, in the clear bottles.
Miller uses hydrogenated hop extract, which is impervious to
skunking. It's also nasty.
Do they use it in Miller Genuine Draft? I get along fine with MGD.
All the Millers in clear bottles.

Pierre
--
Pierre Jelenc | New on Home Office Records: Ethan Lipton
| www.homeofficerecords.com www.ethanlipton.com
The Gigometer | Pepper Of The Earth: the HO blog
www.gigometer.com | www.homeofficerecords.com/blog
Opus the Penguin
2007-01-31 20:28:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pierre Jelenc
Post by Opus the Penguin
Post by Pierre Jelenc
Post by Mr C
Miller High Life also, in the clear bottles.
Miller uses hydrogenated hop extract, which is impervious to
skunking. It's also nasty.
Do they use it in Miller Genuine Draft? I get along fine with MGD.
All the Millers in clear bottles.
Pierre
MGD qualifies. It's a decent brew as far as I'm concerned. I don't tend
to buy it, but if I drank large quantities of beer I probably would.
--
Opus the Penguin
The best darn penguin in all of Usenet
Bob Ward
2007-01-30 01:26:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by notbob
Post by Jake Blues
they coll it down. Is hat true?
Yes. Even the best beers are stored at room temps. One exception was
(is?) original Coors. The original Coors was not pasturized so the
company kept it under refrigeration from canning to delivery. Even
their trucks were refrigerated. Now, what the retailer did after
delivery is another thing. I've seen many supermarkets stockpile
large displays just before a major summer holiday or the superbowl and
let the beer sit at rooms temps. I do not know if Coors still
refrigerates their beer or not.
As for your Colt 45, yes, it is left at room temps till ready for
sale. After beer is bottled/canned, the enemy is not heat, but light.
Sunlight and UV light from fluorescent bulbs can "skunk" beer. Google
for "light struck" beer for more info.
nb
Apparently Coors still refrigerated its beer as recently as 1993...

Exel Logistics completes Coors satellite warehouse - Exel Logistic
Inc.; Adolph Coors Co

Modern Brewery Age, Sept 6, 1993
Exel Logistics North America recently opened a 90,000-sq. ft.
dedicated distribution center for the Coors Brewing Co. of Golden, CO.
It is Coors' largest satellite warehouse in the U.S.

The distribution center is a warehouse retrofitted with refrigeration
systems that keep Coors products at 35 degrees Fahrenheit.

According to a spokesperson for Exel, 336 million pounds of Coors
products will move through the center annually.
Bill Bonde
2007-01-30 02:14:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Ward
Post by notbob
Post by Jake Blues
they coll it down. Is hat true?
Yes. Even the best beers are stored at room temps. One exception was
(is?) original Coors. The original Coors was not pasturized so the
company kept it under refrigeration from canning to delivery. Even
their trucks were refrigerated. Now, what the retailer did after
delivery is another thing. I've seen many supermarkets stockpile
large displays just before a major summer holiday or the superbowl and
let the beer sit at rooms temps. I do not know if Coors still
refrigerates their beer or not.
As for your Colt 45, yes, it is left at room temps till ready for
sale. After beer is bottled/canned, the enemy is not heat, but light.
Sunlight and UV light from fluorescent bulbs can "skunk" beer. Google
for "light struck" beer for more info.
nb
Apparently Coors still refrigerated its beer as recently as 1993...
"Coors, unpasteurized, unsanitized, ununionized", read the bumper
sticker.
--
"The ultimate test is always your own serenity." Robert M Pirsig, "Zen
and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
notbob
2007-01-30 04:23:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Bonde
"Coors, unpasteurized, unsanitized, ununionized", read the bumper
sticker.
Leave the union politics out of it. Not relevant.

nb
Hactar
2007-01-30 06:07:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by notbob
Post by Bill Bonde
"Coors, unpasteurized, unsanitized, ununionized", read the bumper
sticker.
Leave the union politics out of it. Not relevant.
I see no polly-ticks here; the bumpersticker is saying it's ionized.
--
The mnky gibbering and screeching used to keep me up at night, although
in the lst week or so it's prtty mch tailed off to nthng. The smell has
gttn noticbly worse in the last cple of days, too. The next time I get
a barrl full of mnkys, I'm going to try taking the lid off. -groo, AFCA
Nostradamus
2007-01-30 05:31:04 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 18:14:44 -0800, Bill Bonde
Post by Bill Bonde
Post by Bob Ward
Post by notbob
Post by Jake Blues
they coll it down. Is hat true?
Yes. Even the best beers are stored at room temps. One exception was
(is?) original Coors. The original Coors was not pasturized so the
company kept it under refrigeration from canning to delivery. Even
their trucks were refrigerated. Now, what the retailer did after
delivery is another thing. I've seen many supermarkets stockpile
large displays just before a major summer holiday or the superbowl and
let the beer sit at rooms temps. I do not know if Coors still
refrigerates their beer or not.
As for your Colt 45, yes, it is left at room temps till ready for
sale. After beer is bottled/canned, the enemy is not heat, but light.
Sunlight and UV light from fluorescent bulbs can "skunk" beer. Google
for "light struck" beer for more info.
nb
Apparently Coors still refrigerated its beer as recently as 1993...
"Coors, unpasteurized, unsanitized, ununionized", read the bumper
sticker.
Coors: The Beer Made With Scabs
Charles Wm. Dimmick
2007-01-30 12:28:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nostradamus
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 18:14:44 -0800, Bill Bonde
Post by Bill Bonde
"Coors, unpasteurized, unsanitized, ununionized", read the bumper
sticker.
Coors: The Beer Made With Scabs
Scabs? Not the right term.
Coors workers did, indeed, belong to a union, a company union.
When Jimmy Hoffa came to Golden to try to get the Coors
workers to join the Teamsters the Coors management gave
leave time for any Coors worker to go listen to him. Hoffa
rented a hall on the north side of town to give his lecture.
Coors provided a keg of Coors in the back of the hall
for any worker who got thirsty during the talk. Jimmy
Hoffa eschewed partaking of the brew and instead drank
Coke. Very, very few Coors workers showed any interest in
joining the Teamsters after the event.

This is not second-hand. I was there for the lecture.

The Teamsters could NOT match the benefits the Coors
workers were already getting from the Company union.
Yes, it was paternalistic in the extreme, but they got
benefits which exceeded those of any other workers in
any other unionized brewery anywhere else in the country.

Charles
The AnsaMan
2007-01-30 14:56:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
This is not second-hand. I was there for the lecture.
The Teamsters could NOT match the benefits the Coors
workers were already getting from the Company union.
Yes, it was paternalistic in the extreme, but they got
benefits which exceeded those of any other workers in
any other unionized brewery anywhere else in the country.
So where did you hide his body?
--
The AnsaMan
I honor my personality flaws, for without them I
would have no personality at all.
Guillermo el Gato
2007-01-30 15:20:39 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:28:33 -0500, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
The Teamsters could NOT match the benefits the Coors
workers were already getting from the Company union.
Yes, it was paternalistic in the extreme, but they got
benefits which exceeded those of any other workers in
any other unionized brewery anywhere else in the country.
Free Coors is *not* a benefit.
Jake Blues
2007-01-30 15:37:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guillermo el Gato
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:28:33 -0500, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
The Teamsters could NOT match the benefits the Coors
workers were already getting from the Company union.
Yes, it was paternalistic in the extreme, but they got
benefits which exceeded those of any other workers in
any other unionized brewery anywhere else in the country.
Free Coors is *not* a benefit.
I beg to differ. If George Washington can treat the voters to free booze, so
can Coors.
Guillermo el Gato
2007-01-30 17:28:04 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:37:04 -0500, "Jake Blues"
Post by Jake Blues
Post by Guillermo el Gato
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:28:33 -0500, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
The Teamsters could NOT match the benefits the Coors
workers were already getting from the Company union.
Yes, it was paternalistic in the extreme, but they got
benefits which exceeded those of any other workers in
any other unionized brewery anywhere else in the country.
Free Coors is *not* a benefit.
I beg to differ. If George Washington can treat the voters to free booze, so
can Coors.
Actually I was referring to the quality of the "beer." I would have
thought that the keg in the back would have driven the workers into
Hoffa's arms.
Bob Ward
2007-01-30 23:18:36 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:28:04 +0100, Guillermo el Gato
Post by Guillermo el Gato
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:37:04 -0500, "Jake Blues"
Post by Jake Blues
Post by Guillermo el Gato
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:28:33 -0500, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
The Teamsters could NOT match the benefits the Coors
workers were already getting from the Company union.
Yes, it was paternalistic in the extreme, but they got
benefits which exceeded those of any other workers in
any other unionized brewery anywhere else in the country.
Free Coors is *not* a benefit.
I beg to differ. If George Washington can treat the voters to free booze, so
can Coors.
Actually I was referring to the quality of the "beer." I would have
thought that the keg in the back would have driven the workers into
Hoffa's arms.
Apparently they knew more about what they liked than you do.
Guillermo el Gato
2007-01-31 09:39:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Ward
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:28:04 +0100, Guillermo el Gato
Post by Guillermo el Gato
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:37:04 -0500, "Jake Blues"
Post by Jake Blues
Post by Guillermo el Gato
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:28:33 -0500, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
The Teamsters could NOT match the benefits the Coors
workers were already getting from the Company union.
Yes, it was paternalistic in the extreme, but they got
benefits which exceeded those of any other workers in
any other unionized brewery anywhere else in the country.
Free Coors is *not* a benefit.
I beg to differ. If George Washington can treat the voters to free booze, so
can Coors.
Actually I was referring to the quality of the "beer." I would have
thought that the keg in the back would have driven the workers into
Hoffa's arms.
Apparently they knew more about what they liked than you do.
Since you still seem to be looking, I guess I'll be the one to tell
you. The clues are on aisle 5.
Bob Ward
2007-02-01 05:58:09 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:39:53 +0100, Guillermo el Gato
Post by Guillermo el Gato
Post by Bob Ward
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:28:04 +0100, Guillermo el Gato
Post by Guillermo el Gato
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:37:04 -0500, "Jake Blues"
Post by Jake Blues
Post by Guillermo el Gato
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:28:33 -0500, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
The Teamsters could NOT match the benefits the Coors
workers were already getting from the Company union.
Yes, it was paternalistic in the extreme, but they got
benefits which exceeded those of any other workers in
any other unionized brewery anywhere else in the country.
Free Coors is *not* a benefit.
I beg to differ. If George Washington can treat the voters to free booze, so
can Coors.
Actually I was referring to the quality of the "beer." I would have
thought that the keg in the back would have driven the workers into
Hoffa's arms.
Apparently they knew more about what they liked than you do.
Since you still seem to be looking, I guess I'll be the one to tell
you. The clues are on aisle 5.
Since you stipulated that you "would have thought", you are apparently
admitting that what you "would have thought" was not in agreement with
reality.

Write back when you find your aisle 5.
Guillermo el Gato
2007-02-01 10:04:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Ward
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:39:53 +0100, Guillermo el Gato
Post by Guillermo el Gato
Post by Bob Ward
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:28:04 +0100, Guillermo el Gato
Post by Guillermo el Gato
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:37:04 -0500, "Jake Blues"
Post by Jake Blues
Post by Guillermo el Gato
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:28:33 -0500, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
The Teamsters could NOT match the benefits the Coors
workers were already getting from the Company union.
Yes, it was paternalistic in the extreme, but they got
benefits which exceeded those of any other workers in
any other unionized brewery anywhere else in the country.
Free Coors is *not* a benefit.
I beg to differ. If George Washington can treat the voters to free booze, so
can Coors.
Actually I was referring to the quality of the "beer." I would have
thought that the keg in the back would have driven the workers into
Hoffa's arms.
Apparently they knew more about what they liked than you do.
Since you still seem to be looking, I guess I'll be the one to tell
you. The clues are on aisle 5.
Since you stipulated that you "would have thought", you are apparently
admitting that what you "would have thought" was not in agreement with
reality.
Write back when you find your aisle 5.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, Thumbdick. Yes, the fact that the Coor's employees
behaved contrary to how I would have thought just goes to prove a few
thing. Maybe some of the following:
o Hoffa's union offerings really did suck dick, or in your case,
thumbdick.
o Coor's treatment of their employees was truly extraordinary,
reflecting the extra effort that management had to do in order to keep
up the morale up for people, who in a perfect world, wouldn't have to
hide for whom they work.
o Coor's over the long term has an effect like some types of kool-aid.
o You can't get a fucking joke. You need to work on your schtick a
little more. Come back to us after you practice in the Minor Leagues
like afu.
Millhaven
2007-01-30 18:36:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Guillermo el Gato
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:28:33 -0500, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
The Teamsters could NOT match the benefits the Coors
workers were already getting from the Company union.
Yes, it was paternalistic in the extreme, but they got
benefits which exceeded those of any other workers in
any other unionized brewery anywhere else in the country.
Free Coors is *not* a benefit.
I once went on a tour of the Coors Brewery in Golden and it ended in a
bar with 3 free beers. I totally dug that.
John Hatpin
2007-01-30 19:35:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Millhaven
I once went on a tour of the Coors Brewery in Golden and it ended in a
bar with 3 free beers. I totally dug that.
I've twice been on tours of the Tetley's brewery in Leeds, England,
and you got an hour with a free bar (no limits) and free food. I dug
that, too. In those days, I could put down a *lot* of Tetley's in a
hour.

The one mistake they made was having the free bar before the tour. The
second time I went, a lot of people were too drunk to cooperate with
the tour guides. It ended up quite a disaster - a whole city banned
from brewery tours. Literally.

I'll relate the story another time if anyone's interested - at the
moment, I badly need a break from this computer.
--
John Hatpin
Chris Greville
2007-01-30 22:58:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Hatpin
Post by Millhaven
I once went on a tour of the Coors Brewery in Golden and it ended in a
bar with 3 free beers. I totally dug that.
I've twice been on tours of the Tetley's brewery in Leeds, England,
and you got an hour with a free bar (no limits) and free food. I dug
that, too. In those days, I could put down a *lot* of Tetley's in a
hour.
The one mistake they made was having the free bar before the tour. The
second time I went, a lot of people were too drunk to cooperate with
the tour guides. It ended up quite a disaster - a whole city banned
from brewery tours. Literally.
Semi serious qustion, is it the same company that make the tea?

FWIW, I couldn't tell the difference.
Post by John Hatpin
I'll relate the story another time if anyone's interested - at the
moment, I badly need a break from this computer.
Do tell.
John Hatpin
2007-01-31 18:23:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Greville
Post by John Hatpin
I've twice been on tours of the Tetley's brewery in Leeds, England,
and you got an hour with a free bar (no limits) and free food. I dug
that, too. In those days, I could put down a *lot* of Tetley's in a
hour.
The one mistake they made was having the free bar before the tour. The
second time I went, a lot of people were too drunk to cooperate with
the tour guides. It ended up quite a disaster - a whole city banned
from brewery tours. Literally.
Semi serious qustion, is it the same company that make the tea?
Good question - I don't know. A brief trawl through the Interweb
doesn't show any link between the two, but it's an unusual name, and
the fact that they're both selling drinks makes it an odd coincidence
if that it is.
Post by Chris Greville
FWIW, I couldn't tell the difference.
Presumably, you've never had a decent pint of Tetley's. It used to be
really, really good stuff, but only if it was stored and served
properly. It had a deserved reputation among real-ale buffs (like I
used to be) for being difficult to keep properly in the cellar, and
also intolerant of being transported long distances.

But on the rare occasions when you could get it (hand-pumped, of
course) in a pub where the landlord knew how to cellar it and serve it
properly, it was a very, very nice drink indeed. I don't think it was
possible to get a proper pint of Tetley's outside of a 100-mile radius
from the brewery (due to the transport problem), and even within that
area, 99% of the pubs kept and served it poorly.

The best pint of Tetley's you could get (apart from the brewery's own
bar) was the marvellous Adelphi pub in Leeds, just a few hundred yards
from the brewery. What a pub! Spectacular Victorian architecture and
decor, superb traditional food, good crowd, dismally run-down area:

http://www.theadelphi.co.uk/

I've not been there for years, though. Things might have changed.
Post by Chris Greville
Post by John Hatpin
I'll relate the story another time if anyone's interested - at the
moment, I badly need a break from this computer.
Do tell.
OK, here goes. Long post alert.

The Tetley's brewer in Leeds had an open invitation for organisations
to book brewery tours. The first time I went, it was with CAMRA
(non-Brits: the CAMpaign for Real Ale, an extremely successful
consumer organisation dedicated to reversing the trend towards bland,
fizzy crap beer), and we had a fascinating couple of hours wandering
around with very knowledgeable guides, discussing methods of brewing,
ingredients, plant and so on. An excellent way of spending an
evening, especially with the free food and beer.

The second visit, however ...

This time, it was organised by a pub near my workplace, a pub we
white-collar geek colleagues used to socialise in, although most of
its trade was blue-collar or career-unemployed from the local council
estate. They were his bread-and-butter.

The pub itself was a Tetley's pub, which served their beer
beautifully, and the landlord, Keith, was a decent chap who had a bit
of a problem with the alcohol. He wasn't permanently pissed by any
means, but on the times when he did have a bit too much, he'd turn
into a bit of a thug.

Anyway, Keith organised a coach (US: high-spec bus) trip to the
brewery for his regulars, and a few of us white-collar computer types
from work signed up. The rest of the coach was taken up by the
blue-collar guys. (I hate making distinctions like this, but it's
accurate and imperative.)

The coach was due to sail for Leeds (60 miles distant) at 5pm, so
those of us at work that were going left at about 4pm in order to get
to the pub (5 minutes) and have a pint or two there before we all set
off (55 minutes). Hell, it was Friday night - why not let your hair
down?

When we got to the pub, we found that most of the blue-collars were
completely smashed, having been there all day (Keith had let them in
at about 9am, very illegally).

As we got into the coach, trays of beers were carried on so that these
guys wouldn't sober up or anything during the hour-long journey. I've
been on plenty of coach trips for beer-drinking purposes, and it's
normal for unscheduled roadside stops to be made on the way home at
the end of the night for people to relieve themselves (so-called
"piss-stops"), but this was the first time I'd known this to happen
*on the way there*.

This, by the way, wasn't restricted to the men. At one stop, a group
of women squatted up against the rear of the bus to pee, and the
driver, for a laugh, pulled forward a few yards to reveal their rear
ends to a laughing, pointing, drunken audience. What glamour, what
sophistication.

When we arrived, there was free food and beer for an hour before the
tour itself started. You were supposed to queue for the buffet, but
that was ignored. It was a rabble, and us people without tattoos went
hungry. They showed an informational film (actually, a very
interesting one), but no-one would shut up. We nerds sat there,
quietly nursing our pints. The others sang lewd songs and drank beer
as if prohibition were imminent. I saw one guy get six pints from the
bar, assumed he was saving his mates the walk, and then saw him take
them over to an empty table and drink them all himself, barely
stopping to breathe.

When it was time for the tour, some people refused to go, wanting to
pour even more beer down their throats, and oblivious to the fact that
the bar had closed and the shutters were down.

The tour itself was ridiculous. We were all divided into groups of
ten or so, each with their own tour guide. Each group was dispatched
separately, a few minutes apart, the idea being to space out (not that
way) the groups throughout the rather long tour. But people kept
trying to gatecrash the next group, so they could get back to the bar
all the quicker. They were unaware that the tour guides could count
and had brains.

Worth mentioning that the tour guides were superb. They were all
female, young, and obviously selected for their looks. And yet, they
knew their stuff fantastically well - not by rote, by genuine
understanding of and interest in the brewing process. And they
handled the drunkards superbly. Mind you, when a few of us Nice
People, at the end of the tour, made a point of going over to them and
apologising on behalf of our drunken co-tourists, and of thanking them
for the tour, they were very genuinely grateful to be speaking to
humans and were obviously looking forward to seeing the back of the
thugs.

So, we left the brewery and called in at the Adelphi Pub mentioned
above, so people who weren't quite drunk enough to be satisified could
pour yet more beer down their throats. Now, the Adelphi was owned by
the brewery, and served as their "brewery tap"; ie, their showcase
pub. As such, they had very close ties with the brewery; much
stronger ties than normal with a brewery outlet pub.

This was where it got silly. Keith, the landlord of the pub that had
organised the tour in the first place, and who was ultimately
responsible for the conduct of the group, by now was absolutely and
completely pissed, and picked a fight with a couple of the regulars,
who were really just innocent bystanders. Keith was a big guy, and no
stranger to using his fists. It was a very nasty incident, all the
more so for the fact that this wasn't in the car park or anything, it
was right in the centre of the (rather up-market) pub, in full view of
the staff.

There were other instances of random violence that I didn't see, since
we Nice People had decanted to a smaller, cosier room off the main
bar, and kept out of harm's way.

After a while, we were all ejected from the pub, the violent ones
banned for life, and we headed back to the coach.

On the way back, it was like sitting inside the baboon enclosure of a
zoo, although I apologise in advance to any baboons reading for making
such a comparison. The baboons still had some of their in-flight
refreshments (cans of lager) left, and were partaking heavily.

People were vomiting and deliberately urinating inside the coach
("nah, no need to get the fucking driver to stop, I'll 'ave a slash
'ere", standing up against the window). I was threatened by some
large baboon for some trivial reason I don't recall, probably just
eye-contact, ("you got seven seconds to get to the back of the fucking
coach ... one, two, three ...", fist ready).

There were, of course, plenty of fights on the coach. In the absence
of outsiders, the baboons turned on each other - I think the only
reason we Nice People escaped unharmed was because we were, well,
Nice, and we sat there very quietly, our attention fixed on
road-signs:

Hull 50 miles
Hull 43 miles
Hull 41 miles

There was a lot more hijinks than that, but my fingers are getting
tired. Man, we were glad to get off that coach an hour or so later.
It was awful.

Upshot was, all future Tetley brewery trips from Hull were proscribed
by Tetley's management. Officially. Keith was charged a large amount
of money for damage to the coach - it had to be taken off the road and
its interior reupholstered and recarpeted. He was also charged for
the hire of a replacement coach by the coach company during the time
it was being refurbished - a huge amount.

The beer aficionados at Hull CAMRA were really pissed-off by the ban,
since they had a trip cancelled as a result, and they'd already booked
their coach. I used to know the CAMRA guys, and drink and socialise
with them (although I was never a member) - they were beard-wearing,
overweight, calm, jovial, Guardian-reading, intellectual types that
presented no threat, and were well-known by Tetley's. But, they were
from Hull, and the ban affected all of Hull. Forever.

Funnily enough, in the social Venn diagram of CAMRA guys and Keith's
pub's regulars, I was the only one in the intersection. I remember
one night mentioning to the CAMRA people that I'd been on That Trip,
and was beseiged with awe, and with questions about What Happened. As
so often happens, the facts had acquired mythical embellishments - the
tales they'd heard made it sound like Somme-on-a-bus.

Here endeth the Hatpin AFCA-blog entry for 31st January 2007.
--
John Hatpin
Glenn Dowdy
2007-01-31 20:29:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Hatpin
Funnily enough, in the social Venn diagram of CAMRA guys and Keith's
pub's regulars, I was the only one in the intersection. I remember
one night mentioning to the CAMRA people that I'd been on That Trip,
and was beseiged with awe, and with questions about What Happened. As
so often happens, the facts had acquired mythical embellishments - the
tales they'd heard made it sound like Somme-on-a-bus.
Doesn't sound much different to me.

Glenn D.
Chris Greville
2007-02-01 07:42:29 UTC
Permalink
<Snip Tetleys Beer and Tea>
Post by John Hatpin
Post by Chris Greville
FWIW, I couldn't tell the difference.
Presumably, you've never had a decent pint of Tetley's. It used to be
really, really good stuff, but only if it was stored and served
properly. It had a deserved reputation among real-ale buffs (like I
used to be) for being difficult to keep properly in the cellar, and
also intolerant of being transported long distances.
You are correct, I probably have not had had a decent pint of Tetleys.

We were blessed (for some value of blessed) with a local Ind Coop & Allslops
brewery. We lived about 7 or 8 miles away from it, on the days they were
brewing and the wind was in the wrong direction, it was directly linked to a
lack of birds flying.

The old joke applied to the brew's produced.
"Drinking Ind Coop was like making love in a rowing boat - it's fucking
close to water"
Post by John Hatpin
But on the rare occasions when you could get it (hand-pumped, of
course) in a pub where the landlord knew how to cellar it and serve it
properly, it was a very, very nice drink indeed. I don't think it was
possible to get a proper pint of Tetley's outside of a 100-mile radius
from the brewery (due to the transport problem), and even within that
area, 99% of the pubs kept and served it poorly.
Even today, it's hard to get a good hand job in Leeds.

Chris Greville

:-)
John Hatpin
2007-02-01 14:41:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Greville
We were blessed (for some value of blessed) with a local Ind Coop & Allslops
brewery. We lived about 7 or 8 miles away from it, on the days they were
brewing and the wind was in the wrong direction, it was directly linked to a
lack of birds flying.
Heh. You'll probably never have had any beer from Hull Brewery (now
defunct). It was located slap-bang in the city centre, making
shopping an olfactory delight. Yes, it was an ol' factory.

Well, at least it took away the smell of fish blowing in from the
docks.
Post by Chris Greville
The old joke applied to the brew's produced.
"Drinking Ind Coop was like making love in a rowing boat - it's fucking
close to water"
Similar to Hull Brewery's output.

Actually, it was a bit like Tetley's in that it needed a lot of cellar
care, but looked after properly, it wasn't too bad. Didn't taste of
much, was very weak, but it did the job in the end.

It was sad when they closed the brewery - it was a long-established
establishment. My grandfather worked there most of his working life
when he wasn't firing shells at Germans in France and getting gassed
in return, 1914-1918. Oh, and later in life he was in the Railway
Police. At the brewery, he went from looking after the horses to a
managing job and, for some reason we don't know, was treated with
extreme honour when he left. Probably, it was because he was such a
great guy. RIP, Frederick Bernard Hatpin.
Post by Chris Greville
Post by John Hatpin
But on the rare occasions when you could get it (hand-pumped, of
course) in a pub where the landlord knew how to cellar it and serve it
properly, it was a very, very nice drink indeed. I don't think it was
possible to get a proper pint of Tetley's outside of a 100-mile radius
from the brewery (due to the transport problem), and even within that
area, 99% of the pubs kept and served it poorly.
Even today, it's hard to get a good hand job in Leeds.
I defer to your greater knowledge and experience. ;-)
--
John Hatpin
Chris Greville
2007-02-01 19:07:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Hatpin
Post by Chris Greville
Even today, it's hard to get a good hand job in Leeds.
I defer to your greater knowledge and experience. ;-)
Hey, I'm a truck driver........trust me.
John Hatpin
2007-02-02 13:01:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Greville
Post by John Hatpin
Post by Chris Greville
Even today, it's hard to get a good hand job in Leeds.
I defer to your greater knowledge and experience. ;-)
Hey, I'm a truck driver........trust me.
So *that's* why you take the present Mrs G along for the ride whenever
you have a Leeds run, eh?
--
John Hatpin
Chris Greville
2007-02-02 17:32:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Hatpin
Post by Chris Greville
Post by John Hatpin
Post by Chris Greville
Even today, it's hard to get a good hand job in Leeds.
I defer to your greater knowledge and experience. ;-)
Hey, I'm a truck driver........trust me.
So *that's* why you take the present Mrs G along for the ride whenever
you have a Leeds run, eh?
Yup, I can Leeds my old nag to water... <SF> "THHHHHHHHHHUMP"
Paul L. Madarasz
2007-01-31 15:59:48 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:35:06 +0000, John Hatpin
Post by John Hatpin
Post by Millhaven
I once went on a tour of the Coors Brewery in Golden and it ended in a
bar with 3 free beers. I totally dug that.
I've twice been on tours of the Tetley's brewery in Leeds, England,
and you got an hour with a free bar (no limits) and free food. I dug
that, too. In those days, I could put down a *lot* of Tetley's in a
hour.
The one mistake they made was having the free bar before the tour. The
second time I went, a lot of people were too drunk to cooperate with
the tour guides. It ended up quite a disaster - a whole city banned
from brewery tours. Literally.
I'll relate the story another time if anyone's interested - at the
moment, I badly need a break from this computer.
Ho! The Stroh's Brewery in Detroit used to give tours, and *after*
the tour, you got to chill out in the "Strohhaus." Four of us got
three free pitchers before they cut us off. Mighty generous, I'd say.
--
"How 'bout cuttin' that rebop?"
-- S. Kowalski
s***@yahoo.com
2007-01-30 19:52:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Millhaven
Post by Guillermo el Gato
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:28:33 -0500, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
The Teamsters could NOT match the benefits the Coors
workers were already getting from the Company union.
Yes, it was paternalistic in the extreme, but they got
benefits which exceeded those of any other workers in
any other unionized brewery anywhere else in the country.
Free Coors is *not* a benefit.
I once went on a tour of the Coors Brewery in Golden and it ended in a
bar with 3 free beers. I totally dug that.
If you get your choice of Coors products and like white wheat beers,
Blue Moon is pretty good.
Millhaven
2007-01-30 19:58:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@yahoo.com
Post by Millhaven
Post by Guillermo el Gato
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:28:33 -0500, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
The Teamsters could NOT match the benefits the Coors
workers were already getting from the Company union.
Yes, it was paternalistic in the extreme, but they got
benefits which exceeded those of any other workers in
any other unionized brewery anywhere else in the country.
Free Coors is *not* a benefit.
I once went on a tour of the Coors Brewery in Golden and it ended in a
bar with 3 free beers. I totally dug that.
If you get your choice of Coors products and like white wheat beers,
Blue Moon is pretty good.- Hide quoted text -
Never heard of it. They had quite a selection available though, I went
with Kilian's Red. If I ever make it back to Colorado, I will
definitely make another visit to Golden for the brewery tour and then
pizza at Woody's Woodfire Pizza if it's still around.
Charles Wm. Dimmick
2007-01-31 00:15:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Millhaven
Post by Guillermo el Gato
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:28:33 -0500, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
The Teamsters could NOT match the benefits the Coors
workers were already getting from the Company union.
Yes, it was paternalistic in the extreme, but they got
benefits which exceeded those of any other workers in
any other unionized brewery anywhere else in the country.
Free Coors is *not* a benefit.
I once went on a tour of the Coors Brewery in Golden and it ended in a
bar with 3 free beers. I totally dug that.
I used to do my homework in the Coors courtesy lounge.
We were allowed one free beer per hour, and we didn't
need to take the tour. I have Joseph Coors' signature
on my sterling silver diploma from Colorado School of
Mines. He was Secretary of the Board of Trustees when
I graduated.

Charles
Charles Bishop
2007-01-31 06:16:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Millhaven
Post by Guillermo el Gato
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:28:33 -0500, "Charles Wm. Dimmick"
Post by Charles Wm. Dimmick
The Teamsters could NOT match the benefits the Coors
workers were already getting from the Company union.
Yes, it was paternalistic in the extreme, but they got
benefits which exceeded those of any other workers in
any other unionized brewery anywhere else in the country.
Free Coors is *not* a benefit.
I once went on a tour of the Coors Brewery in Golden and it ended in a
bar with 3 free beers. I totally dug that.
Back in the day, the Busch brewery in, umm Van Nuys(?) CA, had free beer,
along with free admission to the park. Quite a lovely park and time it
was. Of course, they decided to put in amusement rides, charge admission
and take away the free beer. Then they took away the gardens to expand the
plant.
--
charles
Jerry Bauer
2007-01-30 06:44:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Bonde
ununionized
Who want re-ionized beer?
r***@westnet.poe.com
2007-01-30 15:07:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by notbob
Post by Jake Blues
they coll it down. Is hat true?
Yes. Even the best beers are stored at room temps. One exception was
(is?) original Coors.
The OP was talking about "even the best beers" so I fail to see how Coors
enters into things.




John
--
Remove the dead poet to e-mail, tho CC'd posts are unwelcome.
Mean People Suck - It takes two deviations to get cool.
Ask me about joining the NRA.
Glenn Dowdy
2007-01-30 16:18:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@westnet.poe.com
Post by notbob
Post by Jake Blues
they coll it down. Is hat true?
Yes. Even the best beers are stored at room temps. One exception was
(is?) original Coors.
The OP was talking about "even the best beers" so I fail to see how Coors
enters into things.
To refer to it as 'beer' on the label seems to be violating the truth in
advertising laws.

Glenn D.
Bill Turlock
2007-01-30 16:54:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glenn Dowdy
Post by r***@westnet.poe.com
Post by notbob
Post by Jake Blues
they coll it down. Is hat true?
Yes. Even the best beers are stored at room temps. One exception was
(is?) original Coors.
The OP was talking about "even the best beers" so I fail to see how Coors
enters into things.
To refer to it as 'beer' on the label seems to be violating the truth in
advertising laws.
It was highly prized in Omaha. We used to make the 500 mile run
to Denver _just_ to get a case of Coors! You could sell some to
cover the cost of your trip. This was before they went to a
national distribution model. I normally pretty much only drank
PBR in long-neck returnables, by the case, cost before deposit
was ~$4.00. I understand that you can't hardly get a six-pack for
that now.

Bill
Blinky the Shark
2007-01-30 17:42:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glenn Dowdy
Post by r***@westnet.poe.com
Post by notbob
Post by Jake Blues
they coll it down. Is hat true?
Yes. Even the best beers are stored at room temps. One exception
was (is?) original Coors.
The OP was talking about "even the best beers" so I fail to see how
Coors enters into things.
To refer to it as 'beer' on the label seems to be violating the truth
in advertising laws.
It was highly prized in Omaha. We used to make the 500 mile run to
Denver _just_ to get a case of Coors! You could sell some to cover the
cost of your trip. This was before they went to a national
distribution model. I normally pretty much only drank
I was said back in those days that some guys made at least a part-time
living by capitalizing on both legs -- bringing Coors back east and
taking Stroh's out west.
--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
Greg Goss
2007-01-31 02:50:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jake Blues
I'm about to crack open a forty-ouncer of Colt .45 (yeah that's right, the
truly topknotch stuff), and I remembered a friend telling me that almost all
beer is delivered warm to the stores, quickstops, etc. He said there's no
reason for them to spend the money keeping it cold throughout the whole
journey from the breweries, that it's only when it's about to be sold that
they coll it down. Is hat true?
Most beer is pasteurized so that it doesn't care what temperature it
is shipped at. It DOES react to light, so an opaque box and a brown
bottle are important.

When I was growing up, Coors was unpasteurized and made a big deal of
having to be refrigerated at all steps of the way. I don't know
whether that was all marketing hype or indeed relevant.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Dana Carpender
2007-01-31 03:33:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Jake Blues
I'm about to crack open a forty-ouncer of Colt .45 (yeah that's right, the
truly topknotch stuff), and I remembered a friend telling me that almost all
beer is delivered warm to the stores, quickstops, etc. He said there's no
reason for them to spend the money keeping it cold throughout the whole
journey from the breweries, that it's only when it's about to be sold that
they coll it down. Is hat true?
Most beer is pasteurized so that it doesn't care what temperature it
is shipped at. It DOES react to light, so an opaque box and a brown
bottle are important.
When I was growing up, Coors was unpasteurized and made a big deal of
having to be refrigerated at all steps of the way. I don't know
whether that was all marketing hype or indeed relevant.
Pretty sure that most of the good home-brewed beer in the history of the
world has been stored no cooler than cellar temperature.

Dana
Bill Kinkaid
2007-01-31 06:19:03 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:33:57 -0500, Dana Carpender
Post by Dana Carpender
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Jake Blues
I'm about to crack open a forty-ouncer of Colt .45 (yeah that's right, the
truly topknotch stuff), and I remembered a friend telling me that almost all
beer is delivered warm to the stores, quickstops, etc. He said there's no
reason for them to spend the money keeping it cold throughout the whole
journey from the breweries, that it's only when it's about to be sold that
they coll it down. Is hat true?
Most beer is pasteurized so that it doesn't care what temperature it
is shipped at. It DOES react to light, so an opaque box and a brown
bottle are important.
When I was growing up, Coors was unpasteurized and made a big deal of
having to be refrigerated at all steps of the way. I don't know
whether that was all marketing hype or indeed relevant.
Pretty sure that most of the good home-brewed beer in the history of the
world has been stored no cooler than cellar temperature.
But for most of history it was drunk very soon and very close to where
it was made, and not hauled thousands of miles away.
--
Bill in Vancouver
Dana Carpender
2007-01-31 19:13:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Kinkaid
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:33:57 -0500, Dana Carpender
Post by Dana Carpender
Post by Greg Goss
Post by Jake Blues
I'm about to crack open a forty-ouncer of Colt .45 (yeah that's right, the
truly topknotch stuff), and I remembered a friend telling me that almost all
beer is delivered warm to the stores, quickstops, etc. He said there's no
reason for them to spend the money keeping it cold throughout the whole
journey from the breweries, that it's only when it's about to be sold that
they coll it down. Is hat true?
Most beer is pasteurized so that it doesn't care what temperature it
is shipped at. It DOES react to light, so an opaque box and a brown
bottle are important.
When I was growing up, Coors was unpasteurized and made a big deal of
having to be refrigerated at all steps of the way. I don't know
whether that was all marketing hype or indeed relevant.
Pretty sure that most of the good home-brewed beer in the history of the
world has been stored no cooler than cellar temperature.
But for most of history it was drunk very soon and very close to where
it was made, and not hauled thousands of miles away.
Was it drunk very soon? I would have thought that as with so many other
foodstuffs, there would have been a beer-making time of the year, or
maybe two.

Dana
John Hatpin
2007-01-31 21:32:13 UTC
Permalink
[beer]
Post by Dana Carpender
Post by Bill Kinkaid
But for most of history it was drunk very soon and very close to where
it was made, and not hauled thousands of miles away.
Was it drunk very soon? I would have thought that as with so many other
foodstuffs, there would have been a beer-making time of the year, or
maybe two.
Yes, it would have been drunk very soon. Unless you can keep the
stuff in a container that's airtight, it'll very soon be undrinkable.
I'd say that airtight containers are a very recent invention in terms
of the history of beer.

Remember, though, that freshness of ingredients isn't much of a
problem when you're knocking up a brew. Dried grains, kept dry, can
last a long time - certainly enough to smooth out the seasonal edges.
Less so with dried hops, but they're a relatively recent innovation;
even then, year-old dried hops aren't exactly unpotable, they just
lose their effect, so you need more.

I don't see any reason why, for example, your average Ancient Egyptian
couldn't sip a brew at any time from January to December. Just don't
call them "ancient" to their face when they've had a few.

The moral is: harvest when the plants are ready, prepare and dry the
stuff you get, then make your beer when your stocks are running low,
and not before. Year-round.
--
John Hatpin
Dana Carpender
2007-01-31 21:43:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Hatpin
[beer]
Post by Dana Carpender
Post by Bill Kinkaid
But for most of history it was drunk very soon and very close to where
it was made, and not hauled thousands of miles away.
Was it drunk very soon? I would have thought that as with so many other
foodstuffs, there would have been a beer-making time of the year, or
maybe two.
Yes, it would have been drunk very soon. Unless you can keep the
stuff in a container that's airtight, it'll very soon be undrinkable.
I'd say that airtight containers are a very recent invention in terms
of the history of beer.
Airtight? No, but I'd bet barrels slowed the transfer of air pretty
seriously.

Looked for some info on this, and didn't find any, but did find this:

"The Dean of St Pauls, in the 16th century, is credited with the
invention of bottled ale. Dr Alexander Norwell put ale in a bottle when
he went fishing and left the bottle in the grass. Returning some years
later he found the cork came away with an explosion but the taste and
quality of the ale was still good."

Bet it wasn't refrigerated, either.

Dana
John Hatpin
2007-02-01 00:37:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dana Carpender
Post by John Hatpin
I'd say that airtight containers are a very recent invention in terms
of the history of beer.
Airtight? No, but I'd bet barrels slowed the transfer of air pretty
seriously.
True. As long as the beer isn't left too long, all you need is enough
of a seal good enough to allow the CO2 pressure from residual
fermentation in the beer to exceed the ambient atmospheric pressure,
pushing gas out rather than allowing it in.
Post by Dana Carpender
"The Dean of St Pauls, in the 16th century, is credited with the
invention of bottled ale. Dr Alexander Norwell put ale in a bottle when
he went fishing and left the bottle in the grass. Returning some years
later he found the cork came away with an explosion but the taste and
quality of the ale was still good."
Interesting anecdote, but did he catch anything? So many times,
history raises more questions than it answers.

Anyway, it's pretty obvious that the anecdote is false. I've been to
St Paul's, and I can tell you from first-hand experience that the only
grass within walking distance is mown regularly to a height that
wouldn't hide a bottle. You put your Carlsberg 4.3% 440ml down
anywhere closer than Berkshire, turn your back, and the bottle will
have vanished, and a homeless person will be blessing your soul.

Of course, lawnmowers in the 16th century weren't as efficient as
modern ones, so it's entirely possible that the grass might have been
left a bit longer in those days, perhaps enough to hide a 300ml bottle
of "Kronisberg Lite" Lager (1.4%, and served at cheap parties).
Post by Dana Carpender
Bet it wasn't refrigerated, either.
I'll bet it was! Ice is older than we think. It was invented by the
Eskimos in 3004 BC, a thousand years after Creation, although it
wasn't used for beer storage until almost a thousand years later. The
Eskimos didn't have beer, but they had 47.5 words for vodka, which was
what they drank, and what they kept on ice next to their raw meat, or
sometimes even inside it.
--
John Hatpin
Peter Ward
2007-02-01 18:01:38 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 00:37:45 +0000, John Hatpin
Post by John Hatpin
Post by Dana Carpender
Post by John Hatpin
I'd say that airtight containers are a very recent invention in terms
of the history of beer.
Airtight? No, but I'd bet barrels slowed the transfer of air pretty
seriously.
True. As long as the beer isn't left too long, all you need is enough
of a seal good enough to allow the CO2 pressure from residual
fermentation in the beer to exceed the ambient atmospheric pressure,
pushing gas out rather than allowing it in.
Post by Dana Carpender
"The Dean of St Pauls, in the 16th century, is credited with the
invention of bottled ale. Dr Alexander Norwell put ale in a bottle when
he went fishing and left the bottle in the grass. Returning some years
later he found the cork came away with an explosion but the taste and
quality of the ale was still good."
Interesting anecdote, but did he catch anything? So many times,
history raises more questions than it answers.
Anyway, it's pretty obvious that the anecdote is false. I've been to
St Paul's, and I can tell you from first-hand experience that the only
grass within walking distance is mown regularly to a height that
wouldn't hide a bottle. You put your Carlsberg 4.3% 440ml down
anywhere closer than Berkshire, turn your back, and the bottle will
have vanished, and a homeless person will be blessing your soul.
Of course, lawnmowers in the 16th century weren't as efficient as
modern ones, so it's entirely possible that the grass might have been
left a bit longer in those days, perhaps enough to hide a 300ml bottle
of "Kronisberg Lite" Lager (1.4%, and served at cheap parties).
Or brought by cheap guests.

I remember parties years ago where, after the fact, there were several
cans of Watn, ahem - Wtny, Wns, Wey, (it's no good, I can't bring
myself to type the name) Party Fours/Sevens left over the following
day. They frequently got flushed down the sink a month or so later, I
seem to remember. Emergency rations only. And I can't imagine a
suitable emergency.
Post by John Hatpin
Post by Dana Carpender
Bet it wasn't refrigerated, either.
I'll bet it was! Ice is older than we think. It was invented by the
Eskimos in 3004 BC, a thousand years after Creation, although it
wasn't used for beer storage until almost a thousand years later. The
Eskimos didn't have beer, but they had 47.5 words for vodka, which was
what they drank, and what they kept on ice next to their raw meat, or
sometimes even inside it.
You're making that up!
--
Peter

I'm an alien

email: groups at asylum dot nildram dot co dot uk
Chris Greville
2007-02-01 19:11:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Ward
On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 00:37:45 +0000, John Hatpin
Post by John Hatpin
I'll bet it was! Ice is older than we think. It was invented by the
Eskimos in 3004 BC, a thousand years after Creation, although it
wasn't used for beer storage until almost a thousand years later. The
Eskimos didn't have beer, but they had 47.5 words for vodka, which was
what they drank, and what they kept on ice next to their raw meat, or
sometimes even inside it.
You're making that up!
Then try this drink

Yellow Snow (Eskimo Kiss)

Vodka
Kahlua / Tia Maria
Half & Half / Milk and Cream
A float of Amaretto


It tastes something like a screaming orgasm
Opus the Penguin
2007-02-07 23:35:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Greville
Then try this drink
Yellow Snow (Eskimo Kiss)
Vodka
Kahlua / Tia Maria
Half & Half / Milk and Cream
A float of Amaretto
I assume this should be served over crushed ice?
--
Opus the Penguin
I'd change it but I can't think of anything I like better just now.
John Hatpin
2007-02-02 13:11:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Ward
On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 00:37:45 +0000, John Hatpin
[...]
Post by Peter Ward
I remember parties years ago where, after the fact, there were several
cans of Watn, ahem - Wtny, Wns, Wey, (it's no good, I can't bring
myself to type the name) Party Fours/Sevens left over the following
day. They frequently got flushed down the sink a month or so later, I
seem to remember. Emergency rations only. And I can't imagine a
suitable emergency.
Yeah, tell me about it. I've got a few cans of UK-brewed Artois in a
cupboard in the kitchen. I've been wondering if they're even too crap
for cooking.

Cookery mavens (yes, I'm looking in particular at Dana) - is
sub-standard beer adequate for, say adding to a casserole to provide
body?
Post by Peter Ward
Post by John Hatpin
Ice is older than we think. It was invented by the
Eskimos in 3004 BC, a thousand years after Creation, although it
wasn't used for beer storage until almost a thousand years later. The
Eskimos didn't have beer, but they had 47.5 words for vodka, which was
what they drank, and what they kept on ice next to their raw meat, or
sometimes even inside it.
You're making that up!
No I'm not. A bloke in the pub told me.
--
John Hatpin
Peter Ward
2007-02-02 15:32:43 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 13:11:22 +0000, John Hatpin
Post by John Hatpin
Post by Peter Ward
On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 00:37:45 +0000, John Hatpin
[...]
Post by Peter Ward
I remember parties years ago where, after the fact, there were several
cans of Watn, ahem - Wtny, Wns, Wey, (it's no good, I can't bring
myself to type the name) Party Fours/Sevens left over the following
day. They frequently got flushed down the sink a month or so later, I
seem to remember. Emergency rations only. And I can't imagine a
suitable emergency.
Yeah, tell me about it. I've got a few cans of UK-brewed Artois in a
cupboard in the kitchen. I've been wondering if they're even too crap
for cooking.
Cookery mavens (yes, I'm looking in particular at Dana) - is
sub-standard beer adequate for, say adding to a casserole to provide
body?
Give it to someone else, and that'll provide the body.
Post by John Hatpin
Post by Peter Ward
Post by John Hatpin
Ice is older than we think. It was invented by the
Eskimos in 3004 BC, a thousand years after Creation, although it
wasn't used for beer storage until almost a thousand years later. The
Eskimos didn't have beer, but they had 47.5 words for vodka, which was
what they drank, and what they kept on ice next to their raw meat, or
sometimes even inside it.
You're making that up!
No I'm not. A bloke in the pub told me.
Oh, fair enough then. My mistake.
--
Peter

I'm an alien

email: groups at asylum dot nildram dot co dot uk
Joel
2007-01-31 15:41:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Goss
Most beer is pasteurized so that it doesn't care what temperature it
is shipped at.
That's wrong. Any one of dozens of staling reactions
happen faster at warmer temperatures. Keeping beer cold
is the best way to slow the staling that starts the
instant that beer is packaged.
--
Joel Plutchak "I never let anything as tenuous as moral
standards get in the way of drinking beer."
- Jon Binkley
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