Post by Russell StewartLook, man, I'm not defending Clinton's behavior by any means. I didn't
vote for him, I wasn't a fan of his when he was in office, and that
hasn't changed now. There is no doubt in my mind that you can find
plenty of sleazy, corrupt shit that he personally and his administration
in general was responsible for. I'm just saying that what has been
uncovered on him so far (in fact, just about any presidential scandal
I can think of, including Watergate and Iran-Contra) pales in comparison
to what is going on right now.
Again, I completely disagree. What certain groups today call corruption
and other terms has to do with their political disagreement with the
administration It has nothing to do with actual corruption. Were there
actual corruption, Congress and the Democratic Party would have moved
forward quite rapidly with an investigation into the President, referred
charges and initiated impeachment.
What Watergate and the various Clinton scandals had in common was their
desparate attempt to block investigations into malfeasance and
misbehavior by elected or appointed officials in government. While
there's no shortage of winging by the left, there's also been no
evidence there was corruption in the current administration in the run
up to the war. The evidence they used was the same evidence the
previous administration cited. The conclusions and decision were
different, but that doesn't amke the process corrupted nor the those
party to the decision corrupt.
It's the inappropriate flinging of words, like intellectual feces that
drives me up a wall.
Post by Russell StewartPost by Bill, the Peripatetic Linux GeekFor your to support a claim it was false intelligence and
deliberately misleading, you'll have to demonstrate that it was known
to be false inforamtion and used in that fashion.
No, of course I cannot prove that, because those in charge have
carefully covered their bases.
You do realize the intense level of logical fallacy in that statement.
I can also believe the Easter Bunny was a space alien who's made us
promise to worship him every Spring or there'll be hell to pay. I can
then argue the government knows this and has cut a secret deal with the
Easter Bunny. Of course, there's a giant cover up otherwise everyone
woudl know.
Post by Russell StewartThat doesn't mean, however, that those of us paying attention aren't
aware of what really went on.
You might think you're paying attention, but your understanding of
intelligence matters is a bit thinner than you realize. That's not a
slam; it's just an observation from soemone who spent a number of years
in intelligence world.
Post by Russell StewartPost by Bill, the Peripatetic Linux GeekPost by Russell Stewart2) A significant part of that Cuban kid's family (specifically, his
father) *was* in Havana, and desparately wanted him back.
A significant portion of his mother's family, said mother having died
trying to get her son away from his father and his father's family,
were right there in Miami.
Why? Why was she trying to get him away from his father? Was there
evidence of abuse or neglect? Did she just choose to risk her little
boy's life because she wanted him to "live the American Dream"? Was
she completely unstable? We DO NOT KNOW. That is the freakin' point.
It was a petty custody battle projected onto the stage of international
politics, and what the Clinton administration did is exactly what any
thinking judge would have done: absent any evidence of mistreatment
or danger to his well-being, returned the boy to his only living parent.
How the hell would you feel if your wife decided one day to take off
to Cuba with your son, and the Cuban government was unwilling to return
him?
Let's see. Because Cuba's an authoritarian nightmare? That her husband
was so demosntrably a poor father by Cuba's own standards that even
though he was a Party member, she still got custody?
Persnally, I think anyone willing to float 90 miles across shark
infested waters to get away from Cuba should be hailed for their
courage, not vilified because they failed to appreciate all the wonders
of the dictatorship they fled.
How many children has the Cuban government returned to the custody of
foreign parents?
Bill