Formatting a 720K floppy

[John Hatpin]

I asked about this in the "Ancient human buys computer" thread, but
the post was buried in a sub-thread, and no-one replied, and I've got
more information, so I'll ask again in a new thread. OK?

Besides, this is driving me nuts, and it's an important job for my
mother, a darling thing of 76 years who's trying to write her life
story.

I'm trying to copy my mother's data from her Canon Starwriter 30
floppy-based dedicated word-processor onto her shiny new PC. The only
way I can do this is by saving the data from the Starwriter onto
floppies pre-formatted at 720K. The Canon's manual is most emphatic
about that, and I've tried unsuccessfully to save to a 1.44MB format
disk. It must be 720K DOS format.

I have two PCs here - one with Win98 and the other with WinXP Home.

Win98's FORMAT utility has a subset of WinXP's command line arguments:

:FORMAT drive: [/V[:label]] [/Q] [/F:size] [/B | /S] [/C]
:FORMAT drive: [/V[:label]] [/Q] [/T:tracks /N:sectors] [/B | /S] [/C]
:FORMAT drive: [/V[:label]] [/Q] [/1] [/4] [/B | /S] [/C]
:FORMAT drive: [/Q] [/1] [/4] [/8] [/B | /S] [/C]
:
: /V[:label] Specifies the volume label.
: /Q Performs a quick format.
: /F:size Specifies the size of the floppy disk to format (such
: as 160, 180, 320, 360, 720, 1.2, 1.44, 2.88).
: /B Allocates space on the formatted disk for system files.
: /S Copies system files to the formatted disk.
: /T:tracks Specifies the number of tracks per disk side.
: /N:sectors Specifies the number of sectors per track.
: /1 Formats a single side of a floppy disk.
: /4 Formats a 5.25-inch 360K floppy disk in a high-density drive.
: /8 Formats eight sectors per track.
: /C Tests clusters that are currently marked "bad."

I thought I'd try the /F switch on its own, and got this:

C:\WINDOWS>format a: /f:720
Insert new diskette for drive A:
and press ENTER when ready...

Checking existing disk format.
Formatting 720K
Invalid media or Track 0 bad - disk unusable.
Format terminated.
Format another (Y/N)?

The (brand new) disk formats fine when I use the default (1.44MB)
format. This isn't a hardware issue.

I've played around with the /1 and /8 switches, but get "Parameters
not compatible. Format terminated."

Not grokking disk layouts, I don't know from the /T and /N switches.

As for WinXP, that seems to add support for FAT32 and NTFS, but I
don't need those. It has a /F:size parameter, but trying /F:720
returns "Invalid parameter".

Please help a frustrated and dumb user to format a 720K floppy on
Win98 or WinXP. Please.

[Tim Wright]

Post by John Hatpin
I asked about this in the "Ancient human buys computer" thread, but
the post was buried in a sub-thread, and no-one replied, and I've got
more information, so I'll ask again in a new thread. OK?
Besides, this is driving me nuts, and it's an important job for my
mother, a darling thing of 76 years who's trying to write her life
story.
I'm trying to copy my mother's data from her Canon Starwriter 30
floppy-based dedicated word-processor onto her shiny new PC. The only
way I can do this is by saving the data from the Starwriter onto
floppies pre-formatted at 720K. The Canon's manual is most emphatic
about that, and I've tried unsuccessfully to save to a 1.44MB format
disk. It must be 720K DOS format.
I have two PCs here - one with Win98 and the other with WinXP Home.
:FORMAT drive: [/V[:label]] [/Q] [/F:size] [/B | /S] [/C]
:FORMAT drive: [/V[:label]] [/Q] [/T:tracks /N:sectors] [/B | /S] [/C]
:FORMAT drive: [/V[:label]] [/Q] [/1] [/4] [/B | /S] [/C]
:FORMAT drive: [/Q] [/1] [/4] [/8] [/B | /S] [/C]
: /V[:label] Specifies the volume label.
: /Q Performs a quick format.
: /F:size Specifies the size of the floppy disk to format (such
: as 160, 180, 320, 360, 720, 1.2, 1.44, 2.88).
: /B Allocates space on the formatted disk for system files.
: /S Copies system files to the formatted disk.
: /T:tracks Specifies the number of tracks per disk side.
: /N:sectors Specifies the number of sectors per track.
: /1 Formats a single side of a floppy disk.
: /4 Formats a 5.25-inch 360K floppy disk in a high-density drive.
: /8 Formats eight sectors per track.
: /C Tests clusters that are currently marked "bad."
C:\WINDOWS>format a: /f:720
and press ENTER when ready...
Checking existing disk format.
Formatting 720K
Invalid media or Track 0 bad - disk unusable.
Format terminated.
Format another (Y/N)?
The (brand new) disk formats fine when I use the default (1.44MB)
format. This isn't a hardware issue.
I've played around with the /1 and /8 switches, but get "Parameters
not compatible. Format terminated."
Not grokking disk layouts, I don't know from the /T and /N switches.
As for WinXP, that seems to add support for FAT32 and NTFS, but I
don't need those. It has a /F:size parameter, but trying /F:720
returns "Invalid parameter".
Please help a frustrated and dumb user to format a 720K floppy on
Win98 or WinXP. Please.

I tried something similar years ago. I only succeeded after rubbing the
front and back of the floppy with a strong magnet. Afterwards, I could
format it. The worst that could happen is you ruin a blank floppy.

[Alan Hoyle]

Post by John Hatpin
Please help a frustrated and dumb user to format a 720K floppy on
Win98 or WinXP. Please.

Try putting tape over the "other" hole on the floppy: not the
switchable write-protect tab, but the one mirror image to it. Also,
try formatting the disc on the word processor instead of the computer.

-alan

[Les Albert]

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 14:21:55 +0000, John Hatpin

Post by John Hatpin
I asked about this in the "Ancient human buys computer" thread, but
the post was buried in a sub-thread, and no-one replied, and I've got
more information, so I'll ask again in a new thread. OK?
Besides, this is driving me nuts, and it's an important job for my
mother, a darling thing of 76 years who's trying to write her life
story.
I'm trying to copy my mother's data from her Canon Starwriter 30
floppy-based dedicated word-processor onto her shiny new PC. The only
way I can do this is by saving the data from the Starwriter onto
floppies pre-formatted at 720K. The Canon's manual is most emphatic
about that, and I've tried unsuccessfully to save to a 1.44MB format
disk. It must be 720K DOS format.
I have two PCs here - one with Win98 and the other with WinXP Home.
:FORMAT drive: [/V[:label]] [/Q] [/F:size] [/B | /S] [/C]
:FORMAT drive: [/V[:label]] [/Q] [/T:tracks /N:sectors] [/B | /S] [/C]
:FORMAT drive: [/V[:label]] [/Q] [/1] [/4] [/B | /S] [/C]
:FORMAT drive: [/Q] [/1] [/4] [/8] [/B | /S] [/C]
: /V[:label] Specifies the volume label.
: /Q Performs a quick format.
: /F:size Specifies the size of the floppy disk to format (such
: as 160, 180, 320, 360, 720, 1.2, 1.44, 2.88).
: /B Allocates space on the formatted disk for system files.
: /S Copies system files to the formatted disk.
: /T:tracks Specifies the number of tracks per disk side.
: /N:sectors Specifies the number of sectors per track.
: /1 Formats a single side of a floppy disk.
: /4 Formats a 5.25-inch 360K floppy disk in a high-density drive.
: /8 Formats eight sectors per track.
: /C Tests clusters that are currently marked "bad."
C:\WINDOWS>format a: /f:720
and press ENTER when ready...
Checking existing disk format.
Formatting 720K
Invalid media or Track 0 bad - disk unusable.
Format terminated.
Format another (Y/N)?
The (brand new) disk formats fine when I use the default (1.44MB)
format. This isn't a hardware issue.
I've played around with the /1 and /8 switches, but get "Parameters
not compatible. Format terminated."
Not grokking disk layouts, I don't know from the /T and /N switches.
As for WinXP, that seems to add support for FAT32 and NTFS, but I
don't need those. It has a /F:size parameter, but trying /F:720
returns "Invalid parameter".
Please help a frustrated and dumb user to format a 720K floppy on
Win98 or WinXP. Please.

Go here:

http://www.computing.net/dos/wwwboard/forum/14041.html

and read the entire exchange of postings re formatting a 720K floppy.
In addition to the suggested configuration settings, there is even a
simple solution suggested that says, "Cover the little window at the
top left corner of the disk with some tape. Win98 should do the 720k
format then.". This worked.

Les

[Nick Spalding]

Post by Les Albert
http://www.computing.net/dos/wwwboard/forum/14041.html
and read the entire exchange of postings re formatting a 720K floppy.
In addition to the suggested configuration settings, there is even a
simple solution suggested that says, "Cover the little window at the
top left corner of the disk with some tape. Win98 should do the 720k
format then.". This worked.

I tried it too and it works fine. There is a lengthy pause, maybe 30 seconds
while it says 'Checking existing disk format' and then it just goes ahead and
does the job. You need to keep the tape on whenever it is in the PC and
presumably it would do no harm in the Canon.

[John Hatpin]

Post by Nick Spalding

Post by Les Albert
http://www.computing.net/dos/wwwboard/forum/14041.html
and read the entire exchange of postings re formatting a 720K floppy.
In addition to the suggested configuration settings, there is even a
simple solution suggested that says, "Cover the little window at the
top left corner of the disk with some tape. Win98 should do the 720k
format then.". This worked.

I tried it too and it works fine. There is a lengthy pause, maybe 30 seconds
while it says 'Checking existing disk format' and then it just goes ahead and
does the job. You need to keep the tape on whenever it is in the PC and
presumably it would do no harm in the Canon.

Taping the hole worked wonderfully. The documents are now copied
across without any other problems.

Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions on this. It
really does mean a lot to my mother, and hence to me. Besides, her
life story is fascinating.

It's at times like this that I realise how important AFCA is as a
resource for help on anything at all. We learn stuff here.

Again, thanks.

[Opus the Penguin]

Post by John Hatpin
It's at times like this that I realise how important AFCA is as a
resource for help on anything at all. We learn stuff here.

Aw, shut yer pie hole, ya Susie Cream Cheese motto whore.

<sniff>

Shut up. I got allergies.

[groo]

Post by John Hatpin

Post by Nick Spalding

Post by Les Albert
http://www.computing.net/dos/wwwboard/forum/14041.html
and read the entire exchange of postings re formatting a 720K
floppy. In addition to the suggested configuration settings, there
is even a simple solution suggested that says, "Cover the little
window at the top left corner of the disk with some tape. Win98
should do the 720k format then.". This worked.

I tried it too and it works fine. There is a lengthy pause, maybe 30
seconds while it says 'Checking existing disk format' and then it just
goes ahead and does the job. You need to keep the tape on whenever it
is in the PC and presumably it would do no harm in the Canon.

Taping the hole worked wonderfully. The documents are now copied
across without any other problems.

And, presumably, you have copied the files off the floppy to another
media, such as the hard drive of a computer, correct? And you've made a
backup to something else, like a CD-R, correct?

[John Hatpin]

Post by groo

Post by John Hatpin

Post by Nick Spalding

Post by Les Albert
http://www.computing.net/dos/wwwboard/forum/14041.html
and read the entire exchange of postings re formatting a 720K
floppy. In addition to the suggested configuration settings, there
is even a simple solution suggested that says, "Cover the little
window at the top left corner of the disk with some tape. Win98
should do the 720k format then.". This worked.

I tried it too and it works fine. There is a lengthy pause, maybe 30
seconds while it says 'Checking existing disk format' and then it just
goes ahead and does the job. You need to keep the tape on whenever it
is in the PC and presumably it would do no harm in the Canon.

Taping the hole worked wonderfully. The documents are now copied
across without any other problems.

And, presumably, you have copied the files off the floppy to another
media, such as the hard drive of a computer, correct? And you've made a
backup to something else, like a CD-R, correct?

Correct on one count. It's on the new hard drive, as well as on the
original floppies. When I've finished setting up the computer, I'll
do a CD burn and keep a copy.

[Nick Spalding]

Post by John Hatpin
I asked about this in the "Ancient human buys computer" thread, but
the post was buried in a sub-thread, and no-one replied, and I've got
more information, so I'll ask again in a new thread. OK?
Besides, this is driving me nuts, and it's an important job for my
mother, a darling thing of 76 years who's trying to write her life
story.
I'm trying to copy my mother's data from her Canon Starwriter 30
floppy-based dedicated word-processor onto her shiny new PC. The only
way I can do this is by saving the data from the Starwriter onto
floppies pre-formatted at 720K. The Canon's manual is most emphatic
about that, and I've tried unsuccessfully to save to a 1.44MB format
disk. It must be 720K DOS format.
I have two PCs here - one with Win98 and the other with WinXP Home.
:FORMAT drive: [/V[:label]] [/Q] [/F:size] [/B | /S] [/C]
:FORMAT drive: [/V[:label]] [/Q] [/T:tracks /N:sectors] [/B | /S] [/C]
:FORMAT drive: [/V[:label]] [/Q] [/1] [/4] [/B | /S] [/C]
:FORMAT drive: [/Q] [/1] [/4] [/8] [/B | /S] [/C]
: /V[:label] Specifies the volume label.
: /Q Performs a quick format.
: /F:size Specifies the size of the floppy disk to format (such
: as 160, 180, 320, 360, 720, 1.2, 1.44, 2.88).
: /B Allocates space on the formatted disk for system files.
: /S Copies system files to the formatted disk.
: /T:tracks Specifies the number of tracks per disk side.
: /N:sectors Specifies the number of sectors per track.
: /1 Formats a single side of a floppy disk.
: /4 Formats a 5.25-inch 360K floppy disk in a high-density drive.
: /8 Formats eight sectors per track.
: /C Tests clusters that are currently marked "bad."
C:\WINDOWS>format a: /f:720
and press ENTER when ready...
Checking existing disk format.
Formatting 720K
Invalid media or Track 0 bad - disk unusable.
Format terminated.
Format another (Y/N)?
The (brand new) disk formats fine when I use the default (1.44MB)
format. This isn't a hardware issue.
I've played around with the /1 and /8 switches, but get "Parameters
not compatible. Format terminated."
Not grokking disk layouts, I don't know from the /T and /N switches.
As for WinXP, that seems to add support for FAT32 and NTFS, but I
don't need those. It has a /F:size parameter, but trying /F:720
returns "Invalid parameter".
Please help a frustrated and dumb user to format a 720K floppy on
Win98 or WinXP. Please.

I've just tried it on my old 486 machine running DOS 6.x and get the same
messages, preceded by:

Checking existing disk format
Existing format differs from that specified
This disk cannot be unformatted
Proceed with Format (Y/N)?

to which I replied Y.

I think you will have to try and locate a source of disks that are not
pre-formatted but it is a long time since I saw such a thing.

[Tim Wright]

Post by Nick Spalding

Post by John Hatpin
I asked about this in the "Ancient human buys computer" thread, but
the post was buried in a sub-thread, and no-one replied, and I've got
more information, so I'll ask again in a new thread. OK?
Besides, this is driving me nuts, and it's an important job for my
mother, a darling thing of 76 years who's trying to write her life
story.
I'm trying to copy my mother's data from her Canon Starwriter 30
floppy-based dedicated word-processor onto her shiny new PC. The only
way I can do this is by saving the data from the Starwriter onto
floppies pre-formatted at 720K. The Canon's manual is most emphatic
about that, and I've tried unsuccessfully to save to a 1.44MB format
disk. It must be 720K DOS format.
I have two PCs here - one with Win98 and the other with WinXP Home.
:FORMAT drive: [/V[:label]] [/Q] [/F:size] [/B | /S] [/C]
:FORMAT drive: [/V[:label]] [/Q] [/T:tracks /N:sectors] [/B | /S] [/C]
:FORMAT drive: [/V[:label]] [/Q] [/1] [/4] [/B | /S] [/C]
:FORMAT drive: [/Q] [/1] [/4] [/8] [/B | /S] [/C]
: /V[:label] Specifies the volume label.
: /Q Performs a quick format.
: /F:size Specifies the size of the floppy disk to format (such
: as 160, 180, 320, 360, 720, 1.2, 1.44, 2.88).
: /B Allocates space on the formatted disk for system files.
: /S Copies system files to the formatted disk.
: /T:tracks Specifies the number of tracks per disk side.
: /N:sectors Specifies the number of sectors per track.
: /1 Formats a single side of a floppy disk.
: /4 Formats a 5.25-inch 360K floppy disk in a high-density drive.
: /8 Formats eight sectors per track.
: /C Tests clusters that are currently marked "bad."
C:\WINDOWS>format a: /f:720
and press ENTER when ready...
Checking existing disk format.
Formatting 720K
Invalid media or Track 0 bad - disk unusable.
Format terminated.
Format another (Y/N)?
The (brand new) disk formats fine when I use the default (1.44MB)
format. This isn't a hardware issue.
I've played around with the /1 and /8 switches, but get "Parameters
not compatible. Format terminated."
Not grokking disk layouts, I don't know from the /T and /N switches.
As for WinXP, that seems to add support for FAT32 and NTFS, but I
don't need those. It has a /F:size parameter, but trying /F:720
returns "Invalid parameter".
Please help a frustrated and dumb user to format a 720K floppy on
Win98 or WinXP. Please.

I've just tried it on my old 486 machine running DOS 6.x and get the same
Checking existing disk format
Existing format differs from that specified
This disk cannot be unformatted
Proceed with Format (Y/N)?
to which I replied Y.
I think you will have to try and locate a source of disks that are not
pre-formatted but it is a long time since I saw such a thing.

If you rub both sides with a strong magnet, you will remove all previous
formatting.

[danny burstein]

In <***@corp.supernews.com> Tim Wright <***@grandecom.net> writes:

(discussing problems)

Post by Tim Wright

Post by Nick Spalding
I think you will have to try and locate a source of disks that are not
pre-formatted but it is a long time since I saw such a thing.

If you rub both sides with a strong magnet, you will remove all previous
formatting.

As a further explanation: You may be running into the problem due to the
different widths expected (although often neglected...) with single versus
double density.

The older spec, which were later named single density, are wider tracks.
Your native double density drive (the one that's in your computer now) has
narrower heads that are trying to write (and read) tracks that are (more
or less) half the width of what's (magnetically) imprinted on the disks.
So it doesn't do a complete job of erasing and overwriting the original
single density width track, causing all sorts of grief.

If you can get ahold of a degausser you can erase and reset the disk to
(background noise), and then you should be able to format it properly.

[Sean Houtman]

Post by Tim Wright

Post by Nick Spalding
I think you will have to try and locate a source of disks that are not
pre-formatted but it is a long time since I saw such a thing.

If you rub both sides with a strong magnet, you will remove all previous
formatting.

It also works to take the disk out of the case and rub both sides with Svinto.

Sean

[David Skinner]

Post by John Hatpin
I asked about this in the "Ancient human buys computer" thread, but
the post was buried in a sub-thread, and no-one replied, and I've got
more information, so I'll ask again in a new thread. OK?
Besides, this is driving me nuts, and it's an important job for my
mother, a darling thing of 76 years who's trying to write her life
story.

If you get really stuck, I've got a few 720K disks lying around still.
They'll be full of old shareware and other crap, which you should delete
using the word processor rather than the modern disk drive.

Drop me an email if interested. The un-munging is pretty easy to figure
out.

[Greg Goss]

Post by John Hatpin
: /F:size Specifies the size of the floppy disk to format (such
: as 160, 180, 320, 360, 720, 1.2, 1.44, 2.88).
C:\WINDOWS>format a: /f:720
and press ENTER when ready...
Checking existing disk format.
Formatting 720K
Invalid media or Track 0 bad - disk unusable.
Format terminated.
Format another (Y/N)?
The (brand new) disk formats fine when I use the default (1.44MB)
format. This isn't a hardware issue.

720 disks use a different magnetic "hardness". They use a different
current in the write head.

You need to find disks with only one hole in the non-sliding end. One
hole controls write-only and the other hole controls HD versus DD.
You don't want an HD (second hole) disk for a 720K formatting. Some
drives are able to handle the wrong media, but some aren't. Your's
apparently is unable.

Disks that were formatted in the wrong OS often retain some of the
formatting even after reformatting and are unreliable when used in
some other OS. Eg Mac floppies reformatted for DOS, or Amiga
reformatted for DOS. If you find DD floppies that were previously
used on a Mac or Amiga, you need to bulk-erase them before
reformatting.

[Hactar]

Post by John Hatpin
I asked about this in the "Ancient human buys computer" thread, but
the post was buried in a sub-thread, and no-one replied,

Well, I replied, but apparently you missed that.

Post by John Hatpin
I'm trying to copy my mother's data from her Canon Starwriter 30
floppy-based dedicated word-processor onto her shiny new PC. The only
way I can do this is by saving the data from the Starwriter onto
floppies pre-formatted at 720K. The Canon's manual is most emphatic
about that, and I've tried unsuccessfully to save to a 1.44MB format
disk. It must be 720K DOS format.

Take a normal 1.44 MB floppy and tape over the hole that indicates it's
high density. Use opaque tape if it might be an optical sensor (I used
masking tape, but that isn't very sticky). Point the ends of the tape in
the direction the disk goes in, so if it comes off, it won't do so deep
within the drive.

I ran FORMAT.EXE from a CMD.EXE window because my messed-up XP wouldn't
recognize the USB floppy until I rebooted, but you probably don't have to.

Post by John Hatpin
I have two PCs here - one with Win98 and the other with WinXP Home.

No odd options were used, just "format a:".

Post by John Hatpin
Please help a frustrated and dumb user to format a 720K floppy on
Win98 or WinXP. Please.

Works for me (just tried it): XP, Thinkpad T40, USB FD.

[John Hatpin]

Post by Hactar

Post by John Hatpin
I asked about this in the "Ancient human buys computer" thread, but
the post was buried in a sub-thread, and no-one replied,

Well, I replied, but apparently you missed that.

ISTR you replied around the same time - I didn't see your post until
I'd started the new thread. But thanks - your method worked a treat.

[...]

Post by Hactar

Post by John Hatpin
I have two PCs here - one with Win98 and the other with WinXP Home.

No odd options were used, just "format a:".

I actually used "/F:720" - maybe this wasn't necessary with the
taped-over-hole trick.

Post by Hactar

Post by John Hatpin
Please help a frustrated and dumb user to format a 720K floppy on
Win98 or WinXP. Please.

Works for me (just tried it): XP, Thinkpad T40, USB FD.

I did the format on Win98 with a PCI floppy drive. The machine's a
PIII 1GHz, which gives some indication of its age.

[Nick Spalding]

Post by John Hatpin
I did the format on Win98 with a PCI floppy drive. The machine's a
PIII 1GHz, which gives some indication of its age.

The one I did my trial on was a 1992 W3.1 486dx66! I somehow thought the
older the better.

[John Hatpin]

Post by Nick Spalding

Post by John Hatpin
I did the format on Win98 with a PCI floppy drive. The machine's a
PIII 1GHz, which gives some indication of its age.

The one I did my trial on was a 1992 W3.1 486dx66! I somehow thought the
older the better.

Yes, that was one avenue I was going to explore if necessary - I've
got an old 486 here that (I think) still works; I could have dug it
out and hooked it up. Luckily, that wasn't necessary.